Why I was against open carry

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redmax51

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So then you can't defend that there aren't any.

I personally believe there are some, but its all hearsay and I'm not going to bother to dig for the solid evidence to back it up.

Either way, to say that there have or haven't been trespassing charges related to carrying a firearm in a posted privately-owned establishment is indefensible until someone really wants to go search through every single municipal trespassing case since 1996.



...and you can't say there are.
 

ZMan762x51

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I've been worried about this since I've heard open carry was coming. I figured that there would be a new batch of gun buster signs pop up from business that do not want customers to be uncomfortable with an open carry patron's presence. I don't agree with it but I can see why they would feel that way. I don't think there is an advantage to open carry from a practical standpoint other than avoiding trouble from printing or incidental exposure.

I see why people are in support of open carry in order to further claim our 2nd amendment rights but when you think about it, does the state really view carry as a right or a privilege? If they see it as a right, why do we have to apply for and pay for a permit in order to do it? If the State really viewed it as a right shouldn't every law abiding citizen be able to carry without a permit?
 

vvvvvvv

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I see why people are in support of open carry in order to further claim our 2nd amendment rights but when you think about it, does the state really view carry as a right or a privilege? If they see it as a right, why do we have to apply for and pay for a permit in order to do it? If the State really viewed it as a right shouldn't every law abiding citizen be able to carry without a permit?

You'll find very few individuals, even here, that truly view the Second Amendment as the protection of a natural right.
 

AKguy1985

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The solution is simple...you continue to carry concealed and keep going into business where you shop and they will never see your gun and it will never ever be an issue.....

X2 concealed is concealed

I will continue to buy guns from this man so long as there is money in my pocket.

agreed
 

hrdware

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Right back at you, find me one instance, since CC was implemented, where someone was cited for trespass as a result of a gun buster sign at a public place.


I'll save you some time, there aren't any. Furthermore there are no instances of a person being charged or cited for unintentionally exposing his/her firearm that I could find.

I wasn't asking for cite or case law about someone being charged with trespassing. You asserted that one had to be verbally told to leave before they could be charged with trespassing. That is what I was asking for a cite for.

After looking at various municipalities trespass laws (posted earlier) it seems it is up to each municipality as to what is required for trespass. Some use the word "told" in their definition, ...the person remains on the property after having been told to leave..., others indicate that an agreement is implied, but that agreement can be revoked by the owner, and it seems that signage (in some municipalities) serves to sever the agreement.

Tulsa trespassing code said:
Section 2106. - Trespassing

Trespassing is hereby declared to be an offense and shall be defined as follows:
A. Each and every actual entry upon the premises of another person's real property, public or private, without the owner's or occupant's consent thereof, whether expressed or implied;
B. Each and every entry upon any public or private premises which is posted or where warning has been published to stay out of and off the premises;
C. Each and every entry in or upon any public property, except at times and upon conditions when it is subject to public use;
D. The use of any public building, except for the purpose of transacting business with a public corporation, unless the manner, purpose and extent of its use is first presented to and the consent given by the City of Tulsa;
E. Remaining upon the premises of another, whether public or private, and refusing to leave the premises forthwith after demand by the owner or occupant;
F. Remaining upon any property owned by or in the possession of the Tulsa Public School System or any parochial school in the City of Tulsa after such person has been requested to leave and vacate such school premises by any faculty member, principal, duly licensed security guard or police officer unless permission has been given by a faculty member, principal or designated school employee;
G. Remaining on private property at any time other than during posted hours of business operation after having been directed to vacate such premises by a police officer; provided, however, that the provisions to this subsection shall not apply to persons, including employees, whose presence upon such premises is authorized by the owner or by a person in lawful possession of such premises; nor shall the provisions of this subsection apply unless hours of business operation are posted upon such premises; or
H. Returning to private property before the posted time of opening for business operation on the next business day after having been directed to vacate such premises under the terms of Subsection 2106.G.

While item E states that remaining on the property after being demand of the owner is trespassing, it is my opinion that carrying a firearm past a "no firearms" sign would violate item A. The owner clearly does not want firearms on the property and has posted as such, it seems that anyone who then carries a firearm into that establishment is doing so without the consent of the owner, thus causing trespass.

I am not saying this law has ever been enforced, however if we are going to talk about what constitutes trespass we need to look at all the definitions according to law and not just the ones that fit our beliefs.
 

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