Picking out a friend for bear country

dennishoddy · May 19, 2018

Dave70968 said:
I have always admired the .44 Auto Mag....

I had one. One of the only guns I've ever sold. You had to cut down and fire form .30-06 brass before reloading it.
Factory brass wasn't available at the time. It was hugely popular and desirable though and I got about 2 months pay when I sold it.
Hated shooting it because you spent a lot of time on your knees looking for spent brass.

HoLeChit · May 19, 2018

dennishoddy said:
The 10mm is marginal for Griz. Probably work OK for black bears, but black bears are typically not much danger to humans. I'd go with a revo like the Ruger Alaskan in .44 mag, and practice with it to become more accurate.
That being said, Alaskan coastal brown bears have been killed with 9mm and .45ACP.
In one case by a professional guide that knew the anatomy of a bear and used it to his advantage.
You can't just shoot a bear or any other animal and expect it to go down with any caliber be it rifle or pistol caliber.
You have to hit the central nervous system or brain to stop it in its tracks. Shooting the heart/lungs/liver is a fatal shot but the bear can live long enough before it dies from blood loss to turn a human into a mass of jellied flesh and blood.

I agree, and have done a good bit of reading on the effectiveness of a handgun on bears, grizzlies to be exact. I've also done a little comparison on 44mag vs 10mm. My leaning towards 10mm is based upon the premise of a handgun only being immediately effective if used with surgical precision and Wild West quickdraw speed. If that is the case, I feel that 14+1 will give me better chances to spray and pray my way onto target when being bumrushed through undergrowth than 6.

HoLeChit · May 19, 2018

dennishoddy said:
Shooting the heart/lungs/liver is a fatal shot but the bear can live long enough before it dies from blood loss to turn a human into a mass of jellied flesh and blood.

A couple years ago I remember hearing about a guy in the midwest who killed a black bear with 4-5 20ga slugs. They also found the guy partially eaten before the bear actually decided to die from his wounds.

Dave70968 · May 19, 2018

dennishoddy said:
I had one. One of the only guns I've ever sold. You had to cut down and fire form .30-06 brass before reloading it.
Factory brass wasn't available at the time. It was hugely popular and desirable though and I got about 2 months pay when I sold it.
Hated shooting it because you spent a lot of time on your knees looking for spent brass.

I knew about the brass issue. Still think it'd be cool to have...especially as bear medicine.

dennishoddy · May 19, 2018

HoLeChit said:
A couple years ago I remember hearing about a guy in the midwest who killed a black bear with 4-5 20ga slugs. They also found the guy partially eaten before the bear actually decided to die from his wounds.

Exactly. Death is caused by loss of blood to the brain in humans and animals. The central nervous system or the brain is the only stopper and when a griz that can outrun a horse is coming at you from short range, Pinpoint accuracy isn't going to happen with the adrenalin flowing through your system. Bigger with penetration is better.

HoLeChit · May 19, 2018

Shadowrider said:
On other forums I hear it told that Alaskan LEOs are liking their Glocks in 10mm. Since you don't shoot them well, I'd say 12 gauge with slugs or a big bore revolver for the large bears. Me? I'd sling a 590A1 and stoke it with Brenneke 3" slugs.

What about other 10mm offerings? Such as the tanfoglio?

D. Hargrove said:
Ruger Alaskan in .454 Casull and call it a day!

As cool as that would be, I can on the occasion be mildly recoil sensitive. I've heard that comparing a 44mag to a 454 Casull is like comparing a 38spl to a 44mag. I can't imagine being able to get more than one or two shots on the bear with that kind of power, let alone accurate followups.

mr ed · May 20, 2018

Just remember if at some point you get to drive to Alaska, you cannot take handguns thru Canada.

druryj · May 20, 2018

Hi, welcome back. Let me see if I get it covered first; you want to go traipsing about in large Brown Bear territory, you prefer a semiauto, can't shoot a Glock very well, are a bit recoil sensitive, want to keep it under $1,100.00 bucks, and have advocated the spray and pray method...so, your choices are very limited. The Witness 10MMM is a good pistol. Ruger makes a nice 1911 in 10MM as well. The Colt Delta Elite is a winner too. But my two cents is this: (1). Re-think this whole thing; you are more than likely going to end up dead. Seriously. (2). But if you insist on such folly, and insist on a semi-auto, then you need to learn to shoot a Glock. Why? The polymer frame will flex, and it does mitigate the felt recoil of the heavy, 10MM loads quite well. A Glock 20 or 40 will give you 15+1. (The 40 would be my choice for your stated conditions). Longer barrel/greater sight radius, and more velocity (whoop-ass) out of the danger end.

I often carry a Gen 4 G29, loaded up with Underwood heavy hitters. (10+1). But it's a CCW gun, not a gun designed with Griz in mind. I shoot my G29 at least as well as my G19. It's just not that bad as far as recoil goes. Oh, it does have some, no doubt, but it's controllable, if you have a strong grip and stance anyway. Also, the Glock is going to be more forgiving of the harsh conditions you may encounter. The Witness, or other steel guns, not so much. I'm not arguing the age old plastic vs steel here, it just makes sense to me to go Glock for the conditions you are likely going to encounter. But back to the bigger guns; the 20 or the 40. Probably not a good choice for CCW, but the best choice, IMO, for the scenario you describe. Read up some more. You'll find that some of the Scandinavian Countries outfit their Ski Patrols with the big Glocks, for Polar Bear defense. Polar bears are bad, but they aren't Grizzlies or Alaskan Brown Bears, which as you know, are both BIG and bad to the bone.

Again, welcome back, and let us know what you decide and when you go, so we know why you aren't posting anymore. (It's hard to type from the stomach of a bear).

dlbleak · May 20, 2018

HoLeChit said:
What about other 10mm offerings? Such as the tanfoglio?

As cool as that would be, I can on the occasion be mildly recoil sensitive. I've heard that comparing a 44mag to a 454 Casull is like comparing a 38spl to a 44mag. I can't imagine being able to get more than one or two shots on the bear with that kind of power, let alone accurate followups.

If a bear is in your immediate vicinity, I don't think you'll notice the recoil. My grandparents retired NW of Durango. When we hike I usually have a Blackhawk 44 in a chest rig.

tslabaugh · May 20, 2018

I recently listened to a Hunt Backcountry podcast regarding this exact topic. As I carry a 9mm, I found it really unusual when the guy who has a legit bear preparedness class recommended 9mm or 10mm for semi auto. Of course, he encouraged all the big revolver calibers that have good velocity. His reasoning was you need velocity to poke holes in a bear, like everyone previous to me said... You won't kill a bear with a heart or lung shot before it attacks you. It makes sense. More holes, bigger chance of hitting something that controls his motor skills. Plus in a situation of a charging bear, more projectiles are never a bad thing. Don't get me wrong, its hard to not think about knockdown power, but its hard to do on a raging 450+ lb bear that has already determined you're a problem.

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