Does Anyone Here Fit the Category of Masculine?

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Tanis143

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I agree that honor is important, not as important, I would argue, as morality because without morality honor can become quite deformed, but important. Likewise, respect is the baseline for treating others. However, there is good reason to include masculinity as a virtue of its own. We are designed by nature (God, if you like) first and foremost to protect our wives, children, friends, and family - it comes very naturally to most men in one degree or another and we ignore or subvert it at our peril - the peril being that we risk rendering ourselves as useless as teats on a boar. Healthy masculinity is not the overbearing nonsense that Hollywood likes to portray nowadays but the best of what we see in our fathers, grandfathers, and brothers. Not exclusively tied to maleness but predominant and quite natural to that state.

So, I don't want to discount what you've said but I also don't see it as an "alternative" to honoring masculinity but rather an addition in a well rounded person.

I agree with this. My post wasn't meant to cast masculinity away, it was to point out that masculinity was not the cause of bad men. Its akin to pointing at firearms as the cause for what evil people do with them. On the part of honor vs morality, I'll have to disagree with you. IMO honor is the cornerstone to morality, love, and respect. You can have morals without honor, but those morals are usually self centered. And morality has been used many times throughout history to subjugate others who don't fit within the majority's version of morals. Rarely have I seen men with honor do something immoral in the general sense. I have seen men place their perception of duty before honor and that is what I feel you were referring to as being deformed. Of course this is my take on it. I will agree with you that masculinity is a good thing to have.
 

mugsy

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I agree with this. My post wasn't meant to cast masculinity away, it was to point out that masculinity was not the cause of bad men. Its akin to pointing at firearms as the cause for what evil people do with them. On the part of honor vs morality, I'll have to disagree with you. IMO honor is the cornerstone to morality, love, and respect. You can have morals without honor, but those morals are usually self centered. And morality has been used many times throughout history to subjugate others who don't fit within the majority's version of morals. Rarely have I seen men with honor do something immoral in the general sense. I have seen men place their perception of duty before honor and that is what I feel you were referring to as being deformed. Of course this is my take on it. I will agree with you that masculinity is a good thing to have.

Ever heard of an honor killing? Honor is a highly fungible concept. I will also clarify that when I speak of morality I am referring broadly to a Judeo-Christian concept of morality that was foundation for Western Society.
 

Tanis143

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Ever heard of an honor killing? Honor is a highly fungible concept. I will also clarify that when I speak of morality I am referring broadly to a Judeo-Christian concept of morality that was foundation for Western Society.

That is a twisted conception of honor much like people twist Christian morals to fit their own views and justify their harsh/violent treatment of others. Being a honorable person is a concept that transcends religious morality though they encompass many of the same attributes. We could go tit for tat on the subject but lets just agree that masculinity does not make a man inherently a bad person, its their actions that define what type of person they are.
 

mugsy

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That is a twisted conception of honor much like people twist Christian morals to fit their own views and justify their harsh/violent treatment of others. Being a honorable person is a concept that transcends religious morality though they encompass many of the same attributes. We could go tit for tat on the subject but lets just agree that masculinity does not make a man inherently a bad person, its their actions that define what type of person they are.

I respectfully disagree, honor is not a fixed concept it is a purely human and societal creation and what is honor has varied greatly across time even within a given culture - it is demonstrably fungible. You have personally given it a morality-like status and I suspect that if we laid down definitions of morality/honor, as written by you and I, we would find we are defining things differently and thus there is not really a one-to-one correspondence between our terms.
 

Tanis143

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Well, we will have to disagree. I've seen people twist Christian morals around and use them to inflict pain on others. I've seen people claim morals that allow them look down on others with contempt. Granted, this is the same type of corruption that you pointed out happens with honor. To me, honor is the basis for integrity, love, respect and pride. And those 4 aspects are each a part of honor. Morals are founded in behavior aspects of being honorable.

In the end, as long as you are working towards being a kind and good person who looks after family, community, and country, does it matter what you base it on?
 

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