If the dead guy wanted better accommodations.

pstmstr said:

Just curious. How many people on this forum have ever been wrongly arrested? If not yourself, do you know anyone who has been wrongly arrested? I haven’t nor do I know anyone who has been. I used to work at a military prison for 4 years. Everyone there was innocent if you listened to them. When you read their trial transcript it was a bit different than their version of the story.

Many of the poor conditions at the jail are caused by the inmates themselves. That particular pod houses some of the worst inmates there. The inmate who died was no saint or martyr. His cause of death should be listed as stupidity.


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I never said the inmate was a saint or martyr. He held up a knife, and got the Darwin award, as he should.


I don't want to put words in your mouth, so please clarify - should we treat arrestees as guilty, or innocent until proven guilty?

Are you saying the jail is Ok as-is?

TedKennedy said:

Guilty before the trial, huh? I hope no "good cop" ever makes an honest mistake and arrests you or someone you know wrongly.

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Everyone is innocent until they commit a crime. Those that do need to be in jail before they can do harm to you, a member of your family or someone you know. Most people are in jail because they committed a crime-otherwise they wouldn't be there. I had a family member who was never guilty but somehow spent nearly 20 years in jails and prison. He always declared he was innocent. While he was incarcerated, your belongings were safe...huh? Why are criminals in jail anyway, if they are presumed innocent they should be loose on the streets...right? At least until trial.

I used to work with a guy who was accused of rape, his accuser (if I remember the details right) didn't get a very good look at her rapist but said she'd never forget his voice. His voice was very distinct, he had some kind of speech impediment. As soon as she heard him speak, she said that's not him. Circumstantial evidence got him arrested and put on trial, but he was never guilty of anything. It happens. That is why the standard is guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. If you're okay with putting innocent people in prison, you've got issues, and you're as vulnerable as anyone else.

We all like to think the system works and everyone in jail (or prison) deserves to be there. Most do, I'm sure. But, the presumption of innocence seems like a pretty important thing to maintain. Maybe getting even more important. To me the jail issue is separate issue. It needs fixed for everyone involved, guards and staff most of all. Simple, clean and safe for everyone. I can't believe that's impossible. Spoken by someone with zero experience, but still..

TedKennedy said:

I never said the inmate was a saint or martyr. He held up a knife, and got the Darwin award, as he should.


I don't want to put words in your mouth, so please clarify - should we treat arrestees as guilty, or innocent until proven guilty?

Are you saying the jail is Ok as-is?

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I’m saying most people in jail committed the crime they got arrested for. Of course they aren’t convicted until proven guilty. Arrestees should be locked up securely pending their trial or bond is posted. If they flood their cell intentionally they should clean it up themselves or live with it. The jail obviously needs improvements and better staffing. Are you saying police officers arrest the wrong people a lot?


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pstmstr said:

I’m saying most people in jail committed the crime they got arrested for. Of course they aren’t convicted until proven guilty. Arrestees should be locked up securely pending their trial or bond is posted. If they flood their cell intentionally they should clean it up themselves or live with it. The jail obviously needs improvements and better staffing. Are you saying police officers arrest the wrong people a lot?


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No, not "a lot", whatever that means...but it does happen. Our Founders set up a system better than the world has ever seen, and it was based on a distrust of government lol. They'd seen some bad stuff here and in Europe and wanted to avoid that.

As gun owners we'd best be trying to preserve the "innocent until proven guilty" theme. And if things keep going the way they are, you'd better believe a lot of people will be "wrongly arrested".

TedKennedy said:

No, not "a lot", whatever that means...but it does happen. Our Founders set up a system better than the world has ever seen, and it was based on a distrust of government lol. They'd seen some bad stuff here and in Europe and wanted to avoid that.

As gun owners we'd best be trying to preserve the "innocent until proven guilty" theme. And if things keep going the way they are, you'd better believe a lot of people will be "wrongly arrested".

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Our Founders never realized there'd be malpractice insurance for doctors, liability insurance for vehicle drivers, USDA inspections, vaccines, or a myriad of other modern issues.

I'm not saying "presumed innocent until proven guilty" is a bad thing, but the Founders and early US citizens also jailed folks until trial (when they didn't hang/shoot 'em on the spot).

And I doubt if ANY of the jail/prison facilities of that era were as "nice" as the one in question.

saddlebum said:

i spent a few days in lock up in my youth, once I was trying to convince my dad to bail me out and he said " if you don't like the show quit buying the tickets" .......jail ain't supposed to be a nice place to live

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Me too. The last time set me straight, even though it was a bogus charge.

pstmstr said:

Just curious. How many people on this forum have ever been wrongly arrested? If not yourself, do you know anyone who has been wrongly arrested? I haven’t nor do I know anyone who has been. I used to work at a military prison for 4 years. Everyone there was innocent if you listened to them. When you read their trial transcript it was a bit different than their version of the story.

Many of the poor conditions at the jail are caused by the inmates themselves. That particular pod houses some of the worst inmates there. The inmate who died was no saint or martyr. His cause of death should be listed as stupidity.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Click to expand...

You don't know me so I am not sure if I count, but I shared my story earlier about being arrested and thrown in the clink overseas, not a lot of red headed/blue eyed men in the country I was in, lol. I am sure your time working at the military prison exposed you to a lot of things we never have to see. I also got an "invite" to the OKC Police Department Sex Crimes division in 1993 for questioning regarding a rape that "happened" at my apartment. I had to request an afternoon off from work to go down there to find out they knew the girl was lying and neither I, nor my roommate matched the description the girl gave to the detective. We both agreed to be photographed for a "line-up" and never heard another word from the police department. On the way out the door the guy doing the interview pulled out a artist sketch of the "Dolese Park Flasher" and jokingly asked me if I was the guy? It happens, there is no way the police get it right every time. I wish they did but statistically and realistically there will always be errors.

Bizarro for sure, but it happened and I still have the guys card somewhere in storage. My roommate was nowhere near as amused as I was over the whole situation.

I once had a step-daughter that was mean and hated me for no reason than I married her mother and took her place as head of the household. I went to DHS and asked a lady about this step-daughter possibly making false accusations against me and telling DHS I touched her inappropriately. I never did and never would...but what if she did report that I did??? They said I would be considered guilty and would have to defend myself in court. Based on that bit of information, anyone could say that someone touched them wrong and they are in big trouble. I mean this step-daughter was mad that I took her place at the end of the table-that's how petty she was.