‘Liberal’ College Students Suddenly Revolt Against Obamacare-Like Health Fees

[SM Rider]

Oh, and I've talked with a number of young people who state that they will just pay the penalty. How's that going to help Obamacare fund its needs?

The remedy will be to have the Fed print dollars out of thin air. Healthcare funding crisis averted. No worries.

 

[YukonGlocker]

Not really - not only do I not believe the federal government *will* do any better, I'm sincerely doubtful that the federal government *can* do any better than the private marketplace in terms of pure cost/benefit - all politics aside - at healthcare or much of anything else. The (very) few things it really should be doing are the ones that seem to go ignored for the most part.

With so many other countries having more success with healthcare than we are, there must be a better system than what we have now. That's why I'm thinking it's worth a shot to rework Medicare and placing *everyone* in the same system.

 

[TerryMiller]

With so many other countries having more success with healthcare than we are, there must be a better system than what we have now. That's why I'm thinking it's worth a shot to rework Medicare and placing *everyone* in the same system.

I'd like to see your list of successful government programs that prove that the government can do a better and more efficient job than the private sector. For that matter, can you name any government program that can provide a service that is self funded? The only one I can think of offhand is something like the TVA where the government is producing electricity. I'd venture that most government programs are actually a drain on the taxpayer's money.

I'd also like to see your list of successful healthcare programs in other countries, listing how well they work without their costs overburdening their "income." With the number of people from both Canada and the UK coming to America for care, I have my questions, especially when one considers the differences in the population size of each country.

 

[Sanford]

With so many other countries having more success with healthcare than we are, there must be a better system than what we have now. That's why I'm thinking it's worth a shot to rework Medicare and placing *everyone* in the same system.

In which countries has socialized medicine been a success that resulted in a level of care comparable to that which is available in the US? Not counting those like the UK where "universal coverage" fails to translate to "universal care".

 

[YukonGlocker]

Using most any metric of choice (e.g., cost per person--including both individual costs and taxes, quality of care, access to care, etc.), UK has one the best health care systems on earth. The Netherlands, Switzerland, Australia, Germany, and Sweden also have great systems (in comparison to the US). Are any of them perfect?...no. But if you consider the overall systems as they work for the entire populations that live there, they are years ahead of us. Anecdotes of a few people that come to the US doesn't demonstrate anything. Canada's health care isn't much better or worse than the US's, overall.

How much money would we save if consumers didn't have to pay every business/company in the country to handle health care?...probably enough that any increase in federal tax for a universal Medicare to be actually cheaper than what we pay now. And how much money would the average American save if he/she didn't have to pay for treatment?...again, probably enough that some level of increased federal tax would actually be a savings. Folks, our health care system is going to change. The system we've been using isn't sustainable...Obamacare isn't either. Whatever we end up with won't be perfect, but we desperately need something better than what we have now.

If you don't think there's anything wrong with the US health care system, you're either living a comparatively privileged life compared to the average American, or you've never experienced a large financial burden from health care (e.g., extended stay in hospital, cancer treatment, etc.). Most people that aren't blessed with a retirement insurance plan, and have to rely on Medicare, really suffer when it comes to access to quality health care and affordability of medicine. And these are just a few issues...they go on and on and on.

 

[SM Rider]

Without a doubt the healthcare issue is fubard. The policies of the government are the cause of the problem. Eventually we will all have coverage but limited access to doctors and medicine. Left alone medicine as a business will take care of itself naturally in the world of supply and demand.

Some tout the "success" of other nations but have no first hand accounts of using those services since they live in the US. Those societies also are not based upon the idea of individual freedom. They are collectives where government is the nanny. Which the US is becoming. The only way to solve this problem and every other problem the nation faces is to seperate the federal government from the issue and leave it to the people in tandem with the business sector to solve via supply and demand.

 

[OKNewshawk]

So can I sue for damages? I've been quoted in Lotsa signatures, maybe I can make a buck.

In theory, you could, but the sig lines might fall under Fair Use provisions--or they might even be considered as parody!

And if i copyrighted my screen name does that mean OSA couldn't use it without my permission? That'd be funny. We could all do that and JB would have to pay us if he wanted us to post in his forum.

Now, IANAL, but I do know that titles (for books, movies, TV shows, etc.) cannot be copyrighted. I'd imagine screen names/nicknames/aliases would fall under the same provision. JB, are you up enough on copyright law to be able to confirm my supposition?

Oh, and so as to not completely threadjack... I guess those college students are getting a School of Hard Knocks education in the Theory of Unintended Consequences...

 

[Sanford]

From a 2012 report on health costs in OECD [Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development] countries...

The United States spends two-and-a-half times more than the OECD average health expenditure per person. It even spends twice as much as France, for example, a country which is generally accepted as having very good health services. At 17.4% of GDP in 2009, US health spending is half as much again as any other country, and nearly twice the average.

• Hospital spending is higher than in the five other OECD countries, by over 60%.
• Spending on Ambulatory care providers – that is, physicians and specialists as well as dentists, is much higher than in the other OECD countries – almost two-and-a-half times the average of the other five countries. One of the explanations for this is the growth of same-day surgery in the US. Such services are an important innovation in health care delivery, often being preferred, when possible, by patients to staying overnight in a hospital. Estimates of spending on same-day surgery performed by independent physicians for 2003 and 2006 suggest that this has been the fastest growing area of health care over this period (Mckinsey Global Institute, 2008).
• Spending on Pharmaceuticals and medical goods is higher in the US than in any other country, but overall accounts for a smaller share of total health spending than in the other countries.
• Spending on Public Health and Administration is particularly high – more than two-and-a-half times the average. Administration of the US health system alone accounts for about 7% share of total spending. This is on a par with other systems such as France and Germany which also have multipayer systems (even if in some of them there is no or little competition across payers). In comparison, Canada and Japan devote around 4% of health spending on administration.

... and this was prior to any increases resulting from the ACA (increased federal government involvement, increased overhead costs at all levels, etc.). Further, what is arguably the best universal health care system in Europe - that of Switzerland - is operated by the private marketplace with government in a limited regulatory role and not running or paying for everyone’s health care, as opposed to the socialized models of England, France, and Canada and now the ACA.

 

[RugersGR8]

From a 2012 report on health costs in OECD [Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development] countries...



... and this was prior to any increases resulting from the ACA (increased federal government involvement, increased overhead costs at all levels, etc.). Further, what is arguably the best universal health care system in Europe - that of Switzerland - is operated by the private marketplace with government in a limited regulatory role and not running or paying for everyone’s health care, as opposed to the socialized models of England, France, and Canada and now the ACA.

Don't give FACTS, the lib dem leftwingers can't UNDERSTAND FACTS nor can they FACE/DEAL WITH FACTS.

 

[YukonGlocker]

Interesting that you name Switzerland as arguably the best...it was on my list also. I lived there for nearly a year, and overall it is a great system. Do you know that Obamacare is modeled after Switzerland's health care system?...or was that the point you were making?
- Switzerland's health care system is a combination of federal and private--the private being highly regulated by the feds
- Switzerland's govt. mandates that everyone has basic insurance--you can pay for additional insurance if you want
- Those that can't afford basic insurance are given a subsidy by the govt.
- Private insurance companies are forbidden from making a profit on the basic insurance, and the prices are regulated by the feds

With some fine tuning of how Obamacare works, including stricter federal regulation of our entire health care system, we'd have exactly what Switzerland has. We're quickly heading in that direction. I'm still not convinced it's the best, but it would be better than what we have.

RugersGR8, which facts are you referring to? If you like Switzerland's health care system, you'd have to be a supporter of Obamacare. Nearly everything that Obamacare does you'll find in Switzerland.