1903A3 Shopping

[TedKennedy]

OK-I'm thinking of buying an '03-A3 after the first of the year. I've been looking at refurbs, non-refurbs, 2 groove, 4 groove, etc.....
What I want is an accurate, dependable rifle. Must have rear peep sight, and not be Bubba'd up.
I will hunt with, and run and gun with it, so a "collector" piece is not what I'm after.

Are there any really good refurbs? I keep getting conflicting reports about Gibbs and James River.

Thanks for any info you can share.

 

[coolhandluke]

Just my $0.02...

Why pay a premium price for a rifle built on a recovered drill receiver with a painted metal finish? You can easily find a Remington rifle in an original USGI configuration for $600 - $700 if not less. Heck, I just saw a nice Smith Corona at the Tulsa show for $500 and the seller said he was very negotiable on the price. The A3's didn't see much use so it's not hard to find a really nice rifle with low MW / TE numbers for an inexpensive price. The only A3's that will rival the cost of the Gibbs and James River rifles are going to be correct rifles with matching Remington or SC parts or arsenal rebuilds in unissued after rebuild condition. Regardless of whether or not you're after a collector piece, the USGI rifles will hold their value far better than the commercial refurbs which is also something to consider. One piece of advice that I can offer is to possibly avoid a rifle with a pinned stock if you end up purchasing an original A3. I believe that a majority of the cracking issues that developed on the pinned stocks were due to grenade launching, but I would definitely have more peace of mind regularly shooting a rifle with a stock that had actual recoil bolts installed. As for the 2 groove and 4 groove barrels...I wouldn't be scared off by a 2 groove. Most feedback that I have read states that the accurracy is not a distinguishing factor between the two. The MW and TE numbers will probably have a bigger affect on accuracy than the number of grooves.

I've heard that the CMP has been offering some VFW returned 03A3's at their stores. You might possibly look into locating an buying agent that will be visiting one of the stores to handpick a rifle for the CMP to ship to you. If I run across anything here in the OKC area I will be sure to give you a heads up.

 

[TedKennedy]

Thanks for the advice - now don't bash me - but what are MW and TE numbers? And please explain "pinned" - I'm a newb with '03s. (as if you couldn't tell)

 

[bsmith918]

Rifles with stocks that were pinned had a tendancy to crack easier than those with cross bolts. ME/TE stands for muzzle erosion and throat erosion. This is a good way to check barrel wear. You may want to borrow some gauges to check rifles that you are interested in.

 

[coolhandluke]

Thanks for the advice - now don't bash me - but what are MW and TE numbers? And please explain "pinned" - I'm a newb with '03s. (as if you couldn't tell)

MW = muzzle wear

TE = throat erosion

You would need to purchase or borrow a set of gauges to be able to measure these numbers. The CMP sells MW and TE gauges that can be used on the Garand, but only the MW gauge will work on the 1903. The 1903 & 1903A3 will require a specific TE gauge which you can purchase from Stone Axe if needed. Unfortunately, I learned this the hard way as a newbie by letting a RIA 1903 match rifle go too cheaply in trade for a Garand because the other party (a rangemaster that will go unnamed) used a Garand TE gauge on both rifles and informed me that the chamber was toast even though the muzzle gauged at a 1. I later witnessed the same individual sell said rifle for "what he had in it" which was $300 more than the price we agreed upon and did not mention the chamber so I have a hard time believing that it was an honest mistake.

As for the pinned stocks...the earliest A3's featured stock pins in place of recoil bolts as a wartime expediant. In early 1943 the pins were decided to be inferior and production resumed again with recoil bolts installed. It is a general consensus that most of the damage on pinned stocks resulted from using grenade launcher attachments, but there have also been modern day instances that pinned stocks have cracked in the recoil recess area under normal shooting conditions. 1903 stocks are finicky enough as it is and will develop cracks in the recoil recess and tang areas if not properly inletted, with the action seated correctly, and the screws well tightened. IMHO if I could avoid the extra risk by purchasing a stock with recoil bolts I probably would.

 

[TedKennedy]

So the recoil bolt - I'm thinking is the same as rear bolt on a 98?

 

[coolhandluke]

Pinned stock on top...stock with typical recoil bolts shown on bottom.

 

[TedKennedy]

Thanks.

 

[milsurp2.0]

A fake mauser? Why?! Why?! :-)

 

[TedKennedy]

A fake mauser? Why?! Why?! :-)

Because I have Mausers, and I want something with a better rear sight.