3 Gun? What Shotgun Do You Use?

[Shadowrider]

Shadowrider, they are not competitive for all the reasons I have posted many times and have been told by all (870 lovers/tactical crowd) that I just don't know what I am talking about, and yet I never see any of these folks out shooting let alone competing and teaching all over the world.

Readers Digest version cause I am sick of re-posting all this stuff.

Hard to load and almost imposible to round and deburr the feed area so it will always be harder to load and tear up thumbs and shells compaired to any Nova.

They like to break, and jam, and take two pumps to load one shell. They like to stick any shell that isn't high brass and is very finicky as to ammo. The shell cutoff tabs like to come unstaked and this cause it,s own brand of malfunctions whern pumping at speed. The 870 like many guns out there is a good enough gun untill you really start to use it a lot, and the folks that love them shoot maybe a few hundred rounds a year slow fire and call them good, heck that isn't even a good practice session for an action shotgunner or 3-gunner...but like I said everyone ( all the 870 folks and tactical guys ) will tell me I am wrong so use this for what it,s worth. Kurt Miller

So they are basically the same as the 1100/1187's. IE.. Just not up to the task. Gotcha.

I'll run the 870 until I find a deal on a FN or Benelli. I know I can turn it for what I have in it. Thanks for the info.

 

[Wormydog1724]

For the price ($300 used is what I paid for mine and $80 for mag extension), I don't think the Nova can be beat. Its smoother to me than my brothers 870. Also the lifter staying up is the nicest thing about it. Doesn't eat up your thumb and you don't have to push it up each time. May not seem like a lot of difference talking about, I didn't think so, but trying it you can tell a big difference. I have the 26" barrel... Too long. 22" or 24" would be much more desirable. But it suits my needs PERFECT. I don't like the 870. Almost bought one but I am 100% satisfied with my Nova.

I'll let you shoot with it in MAy if you want.

 

[stewball]

Oh no, my 870 is going to be treated as a red headed stepchild. I'm going to have to hang my head low.

 

[adluginb]

Sorry not trying to hi-jack thread but what are the main differences between the Benelli m1 and m2?

thanks

 

[jtischauser]

Sorry not trying to hi-jack thread but what are the main differences between the Benelli m1 and m2?

thanks

All these 3 gun questions are exciting to see because they mean we have more shooters that are about the experience the most exciting shooting sport there is!!!

Kurt can correct me when, not if I'm wrong as what I am about to say came from him or other peoples posts on the Brian Enos or IPSC Global Village forums. I have one of each and they are very similar. When shooting them I don't notice any difference in recoil or anything for that matter. The M1 is the model prior to the M2. The M2 has a few upgrades so to speak over the M1. The recoil reducing comfort tech stock. The forearm on the M2 is a little small which I like better. I can't verify it but I read that the forcing cone in the M2 barrel is longer than the M1 which can reduce perceived recoil and create better shot patterns. The choke system is different. My M2 came with an oversized safety button. The trigger housing is shaped differently. The little button you press to get a round out of the tube and into the lifter sticks out away from the gun more on the M1 which I like because it makes it easier to find and operate. My M1 has a removable sling stud on the bottom of the stock. My M2 has one that is molded into the stock. Some M1's have a sling loop molded into the side of the stock remember correctly. The forearm on my M2 wobbles which makes it feel like a POS and annoys me but it doesn't effect anything. The M1 forearm is rock solid. I don't know if all M2's are like that. The biggest difference is that you can pick up a used M1 for $200-400 less than a new M2. I think I paid ~$800 for my 24" M1 and added $200 worth of cool Nordic Components go fast parts. I bought my 21" M2 used with all the Nordic stuff already installed for $1200. If you keep an eye on gun broker you can find deals. Chris Andersen stoled a like new M2 off gun broker recently for around $850ish.

Here is a link to a similar discussion on the Enos forum. http://www.brianenos.com/forums/ind...l=M1 difference m2&fromsearch=1&#entry1071974

 

[Perplexed]

Does anyone run a Saiga 12 in 3-gun competitions, especially a Tromix conversion? I'd think that rig would offer the advantage of quick-loading via box magazines? I'm surprised no one here has mentioned them...

 

[jtischauser]

Does anyone run a Saiga 12 in 3-gun competitions, especially a Tromix conversion? I'd think that rig would offer the advantage of quick-loading via box magazines? I'm surprised no one here has mentioned them...

Magazine fed shotguns like a Saiga will put you in Open Division. An open division Saiga or any open division shotgun fpr that matter costs several hundred to thousands of dollars more than the best tactical division shotguns (Benelli M1/2). Open division also uses open rifles and pistols which cost a heck of a lot more too. So a lot of people like myself stay from that division due to cost alone. Not to mention how hard it is to keep open division race equipement running reliably. Locally we only have 1 or 2 open shooters so you could probably run a saiga and win open division, maybe by default at some of our matches.

There are several companies like Tromix trying to make the Saiga 12 reliable enough to be competitive in 3 gun. R&R Racing is one of them. So is Firebird Precision. There would obviously be a big advantage to loading with a magazine fed shotgun. However the problem is reliablilty from what I have read. Most of us could probably run a Saiga and not have any issues but when you start to shoot 1000's of rounds through one it is a going to have a higher % of failures because it quite simply is a more complex machine and its freakin' Russian for crying out loud. It's kind of like Kurt's input on the 870 shotgun. For most of us we could run a Saiga or an 870 and think its the cat's meow but if you want to shoot a lot which is going to be required to win or even get in the top 20 at most major matches you have to practice and shoot a lot and that's where the reliability issues start to happen.

 

[KurtM]

Yes we are starting to see a few in open. I haven't seen one run 100% yet in the U.S. ( Russian Factory Works Guns run and run ), but here I have yet to see it. I have been told by quite a few that their Saiga is 100%, but when I watch them shoot them they always seem to have a few jams...must just be me, same for the 870s I guess. Maybe I am the cause of all these jams.

Jesse, close enough for regular work, except the sling swivel isn't "molded" into the stock of an M1. What you are seeing is a metal tab that screws onto the mainspring housing and sticks through the side. This is also a quicvk way to tell if the gun is a M1 Super 90 or an M1 Feild. Feild doesn't have the metal tab sticking through the stock AND it can be shimmed to fit the shooter where as the M1 Super 90 can't...easily.

 

[technetium-99m]

I'm gonna venture out and say that "most" matches put the mag fed guns in the "open" division which depending on the area and the shooters that live there may not have a huge following.

A bigger problem with them is the work required to get them to run like a competitor needs them to. I have read about shooters spending $2,000+ to make a box fed shotgun competitive. Then you have all kinds of interesting/expensive mag issues. The best thing to do is to drop it off with a specialist outfit along with your credit card number.

But I DO think they are the future of competitive shotgunning. Look at the open results from the European shotgun championships, mag fed guns aplenty.

Kurt and Pinto may or may not agree.

 

[jtischauser]

Yes we are starting to see a few in open. I haven't seen one run 100% yet in the U.S. ( Russian Factory Works Guns run and run ), but here I have yet to see it. I have been told by quite a few that their Saiga is 100%, but when I watch them shoot them they always seem to have a few jams...must just be me, same for the 870s I guess. Maybe I am the cause of all these jams.

Jesse, close enough for regular work, except the sling swivel isn't "molded" into the stock of an M1. What you are seeing is a metal tab that screws onto the mainspring housing and sticks through the side. This is also a quicvk way to tell if the gun is a M1 Super 90 or an M1 Feild. Feild doesn't have the metal tab sticking through the stock AND it can be shimmed to fit the shooter where as the M1 Super 90 can't...easily.

I knew if I butchered it enough I would get your attention. I guess I have an M1 field then as I ain't got no sling dealy on the side.