45 acp taper

[tkdgeek]

Didn't want to call it crimp and start something, HA!
My Hornady custom grade for 45acp has the sizer, expander to put some bell (I use 1/1000 more than the RN measures) to help seating, and then the bullet seater/taper. I've always been told to seat them, then come back and taper them to have the best experience. If anyone has used this Hornady it has that sleeve that slips to help alignment, which is does, but when I taper back to about 0.470 to try to get the wall straight again it hangs like bugger. Always has. Got to give my press arm a decent wack upwards to free them every time. Have tried a touch of lube, doesn't care. Also scuffs the end of the case a fair amount when it tapers.
I like my Hornady dies, really like my match grade a lot, not really hung up on the brand, just liked the free bullets when I started a short while back.
Would something like a dedicated Lee Factory Crimp Die do the taper a bit easier/smoother? They do needs something as there is a definite bullet bell and the edges like to scrape in my Glock and leave brass dust if I don't clean that end up so I've always tapered them back. About 500 later, I'm getting some better and moving to 230gr but remember this part I never cared for.
Advice on taper die? Since I use the lock-n-load bushing it's an easy enough thing to get a fourth piece if that's what people do.

 

[okierider]

I use the Lee crimp die, it can be set to any level crimp you want . I set and check just until the bullet will not move with pretty good force. I get there without going much past straight walls with maybe just a slight touch of crimp. I load 230 gr RN hard cast lead and see no accuracy issues.

 

[D. Hargrove]

^^^^^ +1

 

[swampratt]

I have Lee dies and Zero issues in many guns with any of them.
I do have some 45acp dies if you would like to try them out.
I would also like to see your dies and see them in action and do some measuring on the cases etc.
Just seems a bit odd in my mind what you are saying.

I am more of a hands on and measure measure measure guy.
I am in Yukon also.

 

[Cowcatcher]

I'm sure it's my reading comprehension that's confusing me.
Are you saying when you bell the case in the expander Die the case hangs on its way out of the Die? Or are you saying the case is hanging in the seating Die?

 

[dennishoddy]

I'm sure it's my reading comprehension that's confusing me.
Are you saying when you bell the case in the expander Die the case hangs on its way out of the Die? Or are you saying the case is hanging in the seating Die?

Yeah, I'm not understanding the issue.

 

[Snattlerake]

My reading comprehension is telling me he bells the end to insert the bullet then attempts to straighten the belled end back to normal size with a bit of taper / crimp to seat the bullet.

Have you tried not belling the case, seating the bullet with the taper /crimp you have set? See if that works first. We can go from there.

I think your brass is getting stretched and then your trying to compress it back into shape causing a rippling effect.

 

[tkdgeek]

Sizer first to reset the brass. Then the expanding die, which I adjust down just enough to give a bit of expansion (or bell) to get the opening about 1/1000 above the 45 size I'm loading.
The seating die is supposed to also taper but I first seat with it, then back the seating screw up and crank the die down until I've got the taper where I want. This 'taper' is where that Hornady die will start grabbing the finished shell a bit too tight and not care to let go. More as you taper more.
Setting the seat/taper die depth to where a fresh case touches will not give any taper as near as I can tell. Depth seems to be how Hornady produces some taper with their die. I start there to only seat first.
I had heard good things about what I think is called Lee Carbide Factory Crimp Die was just wondering if it does it a bit more smoothly than the dual purpose Hornady does. Just feels a bit wrong

 

[Cowcatcher]

Ok, I get it now. Yeah I'd start using a Lee FCD and just use your Hornady to seat. Crimping with the FCD is a smooth process.

 

[tkdgeek]

Sorry, the Snattlerake description is pretty accurate. The expansion die does but a bit of flare at the top and I'm doing taper to try to get back to straight. If you look close, you can definitely see the brass expansion where the 45 has been pushed into it.
With that in mind, the 45 is the only pistol I reload but all my rifle dies expand enough that the bullet can set without having to expand the bass to do so. The Hornady 45 seems to expand the end to let the bullet start and then the bullet finishes expanding the case as it is pushed in.
I have a box of FMJ on order that would be the normal .451 but all of the plated are normally .452. I'm sure it has been that way since well before I was born so should not be an impact. Haven't made any in quite a while but I believe my 185 xtp did the same thing and they are good quality Hornady at .451