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The Range
Handgun Discussion
Army wants to dump the M9?
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<blockquote data-quote="dennishoddy" data-source="post: 2573691" data-attributes="member: 5412"><p>Your comments were cherry picking, you left out the part that I said with modern ammunition there is little difference. I stand by the ball ammo comment that he is not far off. </p><p></p><p>I never said it was sealed in stone for my comment did I? Way too many variables in bullet performance in soft tissue for anybody to make a hard statement, but as the newest ballistician with worlds of internet experience, I'm sure you already knew that.</p><p></p><p>And what difference is a deer vs a human when considering shots to an anatomy, bleeding out, vs CNS hits, other than placement of their organs in relationship to a human?</p><p>Perhaps you can go into detail about their anatomy with me, how their lungs, heart, CNS, liver, spleen and how they are different than a human, and how a round has a ballistic effect on them vs a human?</p><p></p><p>The U.S. military adopted the 9mm pistol in 1985, largely to standardize ammunition. All other NATO states used 9mm for pistols. The U.S. also noted that most 9mm pistols were carried by officers and support personnel, who rarely used them in combat. SOCOM came into being a few years later and immediately began planning to bring back .45 pistols. Actually, many Special Forces and SEAL operators never gave up using the .45, as it was the ideal pistol for many operations. </p><p></p><p>LEOs assigned to special units with the LAPD (SIS, SWAT, etc) are authorized to carry and issued 1911s.</p><p> Currently, it's the Kimber Custom TLE II (.45ACP).</p><p></p><p>The Beretta Model 70 and the functionally identical Model 71, both in .22 LR, have served with great distinction as the signature terminator pistol of the Mossad, the premiere intelligence agency of the State of Israel. The Beretta 70 was also carried by Israeli Sky Marshals.</p><p></p><p>So do we argue .22 RF vs .45ACP?</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="dennishoddy, post: 2573691, member: 5412"] Your comments were cherry picking, you left out the part that I said with modern ammunition there is little difference. I stand by the ball ammo comment that he is not far off. I never said it was sealed in stone for my comment did I? Way too many variables in bullet performance in soft tissue for anybody to make a hard statement, but as the newest ballistician with worlds of internet experience, I'm sure you already knew that. And what difference is a deer vs a human when considering shots to an anatomy, bleeding out, vs CNS hits, other than placement of their organs in relationship to a human? Perhaps you can go into detail about their anatomy with me, how their lungs, heart, CNS, liver, spleen and how they are different than a human, and how a round has a ballistic effect on them vs a human? The U.S. military adopted the 9mm pistol in 1985, largely to standardize ammunition. All other NATO states used 9mm for pistols. The U.S. also noted that most 9mm pistols were carried by officers and support personnel, who rarely used them in combat. SOCOM came into being a few years later and immediately began planning to bring back .45 pistols. Actually, many Special Forces and SEAL operators never gave up using the .45, as it was the ideal pistol for many operations. LEOs assigned to special units with the LAPD (SIS, SWAT, etc) are authorized to carry and issued 1911s. Currently, it's the Kimber Custom TLE II (.45ACP). The Beretta Model 70 and the functionally identical Model 71, both in .22 LR, have served with great distinction as the signature terminator pistol of the Mossad, the premiere intelligence agency of the State of Israel. The Beretta 70 was also carried by Israeli Sky Marshals. So do we argue .22 RF vs .45ACP? [/QUOTE]
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