Conceal Carry in bars and taverns

[Bierhunter]

I think people should be allowed to carry anywhere.

Just because someone's in a bar, doesn't mean he's there to get drunk.

And if someone does get drunk, what about that heavy weapon on wheels he's going to drive home? Not allowing him to carry a gun in the bar isn't going to stop him from killing someone on the road.

It boils down to personal responsibility. Yes, many people don't have it. So what. If someone commits a crime, throw the book at him; and hit him hard with it.

I think the problem is that the laws are too restrictive on law abiding people, and not hard enough on those who actually commit crimes.

Our revolving door justice system is such a joke, that many don't respect the law. Those of us that do respect it and care about others, end up getting our freedoms eroded away in the name of the gov't protecting us from ourselves. But that still doesn't stop bad stuff from happening.

 

[Oklahoma_mike]

I think people should be allowed to carry anywhere.

Just because someone's in a bar, doesn't mean he's there to get drunk.

And if someone does get drunk, what about that heavy weapon on wheels he's going to drive home? Not allowing him to carry a gun in the bar isn't going to stop him from killing someone on the road.

It boils down to personal responsibility. Yes, many people don't have it. So what. If someone commits a crime, throw the book at him; and hit him hard with it.

I think the problem is that the laws are too restrictive on law abiding people, and not hard enough on those who actually commit crimes.

Our revolving door justice system is such a joke, that many don't respect the law. Those of us that do respect it and care about others, end up getting our freedoms eroded away in the name of the gov't protecting us from ourselves. But that still doesn't stop bad stuff from happening.

You said exatly what I was thinking.

 

[Ridgeway]

Perfect, thank you for saving me the typing and getting my point across!

I think people should be allowed to carry anywhere.

Just because someone's in a bar, doesn't mean he's there to get drunk.

And if someone does get drunk, what about that heavy weapon on wheels he's going to drive home? Not allowing him to carry a gun in the bar isn't going to stop him from killing someone on the road.

It boils down to personal responsibility. Yes, many people don't have it. So what. If someone commits a crime, throw the book at him; and hit him hard with it.

I think the problem is that the laws are too restrictive on law abiding people, and not hard enough on those who actually commit crimes.

Our revolving door justice system is such a joke, that many don't respect the law. Those of us that do respect it and care about others, end up getting our freedoms eroded away in the name of the gov't protecting us from ourselves. But that still doesn't stop bad stuff from happening.

 

[N2Guns]

I think people should be allowed to carry anywhere.

Just because someone's in a bar, doesn't mean he's there to get drunk.

And if someone does get drunk, what about that heavy weapon on wheels he's going to drive home? Not allowing him to carry a gun in the bar isn't going to stop him from killing someone on the road.

It boils down to personal responsibility. Yes, many people don't have it. So what. If someone commits a crime, throw the book at him; and hit him hard with it.

I think the problem is that the laws are too restrictive on law abiding people, and not hard enough on those who actually commit crimes.
Our revolving door justice system is such a joke, that many don't respect the law. Those of us that do respect it and care about others, end up getting our freedoms eroded away in the name of the gov't protecting us from ourselves. But that still doesn't stop bad stuff from happening.

My favorite part of this post!

Isn't that always the way, though? The good, law-abiding people have to suffer for the criminals' behaviors?

 

[Soulman]

Well, if there was ever any place you might actually need one.....

Totally agree. I've been in really bad bars before, but most of the bars I might be in today would be upper end, so it's not so much inside that I'm worried about. I want to carry as much and as often as possible. The chances of needing it in some places might be slim, but there's always a chance. I would much rather have it and not need it than need it and not have it. And that's where my dad and I argue. He either says "stay out of those places" which can't always happen, or "the chances of something happening are slim statistically speaking......" Well, I don't want to end up a bad statistic. Or, "you only need hi cap mags if you are a police officer or military". Well, I highly doubt I would need 12, 15, 18+ rounds, but I would rather have too much over not having enough.

Over train, over prepare, carry as often as legally possible.

I'm a steadfast 2nd amendment supporter. But this is one of the WORST ideas I've heard in a long time.

Wanting the government to restrict lawful citizens from protecting themselves is a bad idea. Saying "we should keep them from carrying in X-place to keep them from doing stupid" ranks right up there with "anyone with a semi-auto/hi cap mag/etc could potentially cause harm since the "more powerful gear" gives some a bad@ss complex."

I might not see why some think they need/want a hi cap AK/AR or maybe even a full auto. That doesn't mean I think they should restrict them just because it's not something I would personally choose to do. And some argue that owning guns like I mentioned means you only want them for bad guy activities.

Would I carry in a bar if I were allowed, yes. Would I drink and get drunk? I don't get drunk and drink very seldom. Why am I in the bar? Family and friends like going and as bulbboy said, I'm always the designated driver.

And I guess there are no shootings in bars now since it's illegal to carry in one? Do you really think shootings in bars would suddenly increase if law abiding citizens (think of all the hoops one must jump through to get a CCL) were allowed to carry? How many CC-holders drink to the point of getting drunk?

...........snip............So keep in mind pard, "Wild" Bill Hickok, even though a fairly proficient gunman himself, met his demise in a saloon when a drunk shot him in the back of the head.

^This.....

People that shoot other people at bars, don't care what the law says anyway.

 

[rcnich]

Truckman said CCW in bars and taverns ought to be allowed "as long as the person is not intoxicated over the legal limit."

THAT'S what I have a big problem with.

Possession of a firearm while under the influence of alcohol is:
1. A violation of OK Title 21 Sec. 1289.9
2. NOT responsible behavior for any gun owner, much less one with a CCW
3. Asking for trouble
4. The worst idea I've heard in a long time.

I don't have an issue with CCW in taverns, or public places per se.
My issue is with carrying a firearm while consuming alcohol. And that's what my subsequent comments primarily addressed.

Soulman, please don't lump me in with the Brady bunch. Nothing I said had anything to do with limiting what kind of guns people can own. (I own most of those you listed.)

You ask "How many CC-holders drink to the point of getting drunk?"
I don't know. Do you know that precise number?

Most CCW holders that I know seem to be typical, everyday people -- except they take responsibility for their own protection.
I suppose they get drunk about as much as other typical, everyday people. But when they carry their weapon, Oklahoma law demands from them a higher standard of responsibility. Being responsible may just mean NO alcohol for as long as that handgun is within easy reach.

Bierhunter, you say "Just because someone's in a bar, doesn't mean he's there to get drunk. And if someone does get drunk, what about that heavy weapon on wheels he's going to drive home? Not allowing him to carry a gun in the bar isn't going to stop him from killing someone on the road."

So then, are you saying it should be okay to go into a bar with your concealed weapon as long as you "drink responsibly?" What part of OK Title 21 Sec. 1289.9 makes that lawful?

And since "Not allowing him to carry a gun in the bar isn't going to stop him from killing someone on the road," should we also do away with DUI laws as well, since they apparently don't prevent drunk driving deaths?

What bothers me about this discussion is how easily some folks slide between
"I should be able to carry my weapon anywhere...
and...
"I should be able to consume alcohol while I'm armed."

I don't have an issue with the former. It's the latter that worries me.

 

[Rod Snell]

Utah is one state that does not prohibit concealed carry in bars.
However, they have "one strike and you're out" for carrying or driving over .08 BAC.
http://publicsafety.utah.gov/bci/concealedfirearms.html

How would you feel about getting your CHP permanently revoked if you had a DUI or CUI?

 

[truckmann]

I left that part in about "over the legal limit" mostly for reasons that the law has to have some base for judging when a person is breaking the law. The legal limit is mostly an arbitrary number (coming from some meaningless study I'm sure) used for prosecution and is no different than it would be used for DUI cases.

Also I can say I don't really have a problem with someone sitting down and having a beer with a meal while carrying a firearm and getting in a car to drive after wards. If you aren't responsible enough or able to handle 1 beer then you should probably be responsible enough not have that beer in the first place. I also have no problem with a 1 strike and you're out rule.

 

[rcnich]

.08 BAC was not pulled out of somebody's ass. BAC limits were the determined with more than 20 years of continuing scientific studies by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration and the International Association of Chiefs of Police -- who also developed the standardized field sobriety test in use today by law enforcement across the U.S.

So, do you have a problem if someone has three beers -- or even 12 beers -- and thinks they can "handle it" based on their experience of not yet crashing into somebody?

.08 BAC is a level of alcohol in the blood system that's been determined to be a good indicator of impaired motor function and thinking ability.

Let's face it; our laws were not written for responsible people.
It's irresponsible people who create the crying mothers, who influence the politicians that we elect, who write the laws that limit our freedoms.

It's just like the extra $ you pay in your car insurance premium to cover the cost of accidents caused by irresponsible people who drive without car insurance.

 

[truckmann]

So, do you have a problem if someone has three beers -- or even 12 beers -- and thinks they can "handle it" based on their experience of not yet crashing into somebody?

Please don't read words into my posts. I said 1 beer for a reason. Sure maybe certain people are fine with 2 or 3, but I feel that more than one is inappropriate for this situation regardless.

Sadly I also have little faith in most "studies" that take place, especially involving the US government and laws. It is very easy to throw out data that is presumed bad and skew data to get the desired results. I have also seen it stated that the studies "support" the premise that .08 BAC is the safe limit to decrease alcohol related fatalities, which suggests to me the results are somewhat inconclusive.