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Message: <blockquote data-quote="dennishoddy" data-source="post: 712256" data-attributes="member: 5412">Wild Bill Hickock killed a man cheating at a card game with a .22 short derringer.People have been killed with a daisy red rider bb gun penetrating thru the area between a rib and entering the heart.My ex-wifes uncle was shot thru the helmet by an AK round in Nam that failed to penetrate his skull, travelling around his helmet, bouncing between the helmet, and his skull. Strange things happen with bullets.I read a report written by an LA coroner that does several shooting a day. He said that most 1 shot kills were by a .357 or .45acp. The multi shot kills were by everything from a .22 to a 9mm.He did autopsies on people that even a .45 acp did not kill the perp with the first shot as there are certain parts of the chest/body where getting shot with anything but a .50BMG is not a fatal shot.Shot placement with any caliber is paramount.Shot placement in a gunfight comes from a tremendous amount of training and some great big Kahunas.For the rest of us its pretty much luck about where the bullet is going to land in a gun fight.Shooting at a target at the range in a combat stance does great things for your ego, but nothing when your crapping your pants behind a dumpster and a couple of bad boys are thumping  and kicking you to the point of passing out.Get some real training.Just my opinion...and experience.</blockquote>