Employers can forbid guns, a judge rules, issues an injunction against OK law.
- Thread starter J.P.
- Start Date
You've got that right.
For those who seem to be defending property rights, maybe they need to remember, YOUR CAR IS YOUR PROPERTY!
Would you be OK if your employer searched you and your car anytime they felt like it, just because it was on their property, even if it was not in your job description?
Would you be OK if when you came to my house (my property), I could search you anytime I wanted, since, once you were on my property, everything you were carrying was under my jurisdiction, right? Would you be OK if I seized whatever you were carrying, including your money, since it was now on my property, and I could do whatever I wanted, right?
It's real simple: property rights have limits, and the question is: does the second amendment apply to you in your OWN car (which is your property temporarily parked on someone's lot) , or can businesses search your car (your property owned by you) whenever they feel like it.
I think most of us in Oklahoma know the common sense answer to that one.
Would you be OK if your employer searched you and your car anytime they felt like it, just because it was on their property, even if it was not in your job description?
Would you be OK if when you came to my house (my property), I could search you anytime I wanted, since, once you were on my property, everything you were carrying was under my jurisdiction, right? Would you be OK if I seized whatever you were carrying, including your money, since it was now on my property, and I could do whatever I wanted, right?
It's real simple: property rights have limits, and the question is: does the second amendment apply to you in your OWN car (which is your property temporarily parked on someone's lot) , or can businesses search your car (your property owned by you) whenever they feel like it.
I think most of us in Oklahoma know the common sense answer to that one.
One thing people keep bringing up here is 'carrying at work'. I don't think that is what we talking about: it is leaving the weapon in your locked car while parked in the employer's lot.
Proscribing the actual carrying at work is well-within their rights, but my view is that they have somewhat more limited rights when it comes to carrying to and from; such a policy as Conoco and Weyerhaueser had before the law took effect basically stripped the employees of their right to protect themselves during these times. And I feel that this was unreasonable. The law does not take away employers rights to prohibit carrying guns at work. It does take away their right to deprive us of the means of defense while going to and from work.
And this is a reasonable approach, I think.
Proscribing the actual carrying at work is well-within their rights, but my view is that they have somewhat more limited rights when it comes to carrying to and from; such a policy as Conoco and Weyerhaueser had before the law took effect basically stripped the employees of their right to protect themselves during these times. And I feel that this was unreasonable. The law does not take away employers rights to prohibit carrying guns at work. It does take away their right to deprive us of the means of defense while going to and from work.
And this is a reasonable approach, I think.
Nobody was depriving anybody of a right to defense. As has been said multiple times on in this thread, if you "feel that this rule is unreasonable," you are free to quit anytime. At will employment, right?
Of course your car is your property. Of course your employer has no right to search it without your permission. However, he does have every right to make permission to search your property a condition of your continued employment with him, and of your continued presence on his property. You have that same right with people you invite on your property. You can ask them for permission to search their persons or their cars, and if they say no, you can say "GTFO." It would kind of be a d!ck move, but you have that right, nonetheless.
Of course your car is your property. Of course your employer has no right to search it without your permission. However, he does have every right to make permission to search your property a condition of your continued employment with him, and of your continued presence on his property. You have that same right with people you invite on your property. You can ask them for permission to search their persons or their cars, and if they say no, you can say "GTFO." It would kind of be a d!ck move, but you have that right, nonetheless.
Absolute nonsense. If they are depriving you of the means of defense while off their property, they are effectively depriving you of the right of defense.
Property rights are not absolute. There are things that you cannot do to others even on your own property. You might disagree with what they have done, but the Oklahoma legislature has decided that this is one of them, and the law has been upheld on appeal, so legally speaking at least, the issue seems to be settled.
I think that you and I are going to have to agree to disagree on this one, all right? Luckily for me, I am retired, so this is more of a philosophical/theoretical thing with me. I support the law as was upheld on appeal. You seem not to.
Anyway, you take care.
Good luck in court.
If you don't think property rights are absolute, do you at least believe they are equal among all people?
So if your employer doesn't have the right to kick somebody off his property for some reason, you don't either?
Or do some people have more rights than others?
Me, I think the right to exclude from your property is absolute. If you want them off your land, they have to leave. And if they won't, you have the right to use reasonable force to expel them.
Your right to free association (and the right to abstain from free association) is absolute, too. nobody has a right to force you to remain in a relationship with them, such as an employment one, when you have no desire to continue it.
And your rights are not defined by the Oklahoma Legislature, or any other government. They are inherent and inalienable.
So if your employer doesn't have the right to kick somebody off his property for some reason, you don't either?
Or do some people have more rights than others?
Me, I think the right to exclude from your property is absolute. If you want them off your land, they have to leave. And if they won't, you have the right to use reasonable force to expel them.
Your right to free association (and the right to abstain from free association) is absolute, too. nobody has a right to force you to remain in a relationship with them, such as an employment one, when you have no desire to continue it.
And your rights are not defined by the Oklahoma Legislature, or any other government. They are inherent and inalienable.
Your car is your property. The employer has no right to search your car. However, your car is on the employer's property, therefore he can ask you to keep your "property" off his property if there is reasonable suspicion that you have firearms.
Yeah, nobody likes that, but it's the employers right to do so. If you don't like it, keep your car off the company lot, or seek employment elsewhere.
Yeah, nobody likes that, but it's the employers right to do so. If you don't like it, keep your car off the company lot, or seek employment elsewhere.
Where in the law did you find this, because I can't.
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