Factors in Surviving Gunfights

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C&P of an old post I made on the Kansas CCW forum.

It has been my observation that when those of us who are into guns start talking about the defensive uses of guns, the only thing usually discussed is the caliber of the gun. I have read statements to the effect that caliber is crucial. Some folks seem to feel like this is the main factor in who will win or lose the fight if, God forbid, one occurs.

Hopefully, we can use this post to shed a little light on the subject. So, I am going to give you the most important rule of gun fighting right now. It is

Avoid them!!!

In spite of the 'castle doctrine' law that was passed the same year as Kansas' CCW law, saying in effect that we do not have a duty to retreat from anyplace that we have a lawful right to be, it is still a very good idea to retreat from the scene if you can do so without endangering either yourself or those that you have a duty to protect. The gun, which after a long and arduous process, you have finally won the legal right to carry, is there to protect your life or the life of your family in the event that the use of deadly force becomes necessary. It is not cowardly to retreat if you can; in fact, it shows prudence and good judgement on your part.

So, we now come to the question of what determines who wins a gunfight and who loses.
There are four main factors in surviving gunfights (always assuming that they cannot be avoided altogether). They are:

1. The willingness to shoot, sometimes called mental preparation. The most powerful wondergun in the world won't do you a bit of good if you are not willing to use it if you have to.

2. Sound tactics; i.e. the use of effective cover and/or concealment if there is any available. Don't be like Dirty Harry in Sudden Impact, standing dramatically out in the open with your 44 Auto-Mag. If your foe shoots while you are doing something as stupid as this, that Auto-Mag might as well be a Jennings 22.

3. Bullet placement. A hit with 38 special beats the hell out of a miss with a 500S&W. Likewise, a 32 bullet hitting your spine is going to do more damage than a 45 in the muscle of your leg.

4. Caliber. This is the least important variable. About all a heavier caliber will do as opposed to a smaller one is give you little more margin for error.

So, don't depend on caliber as the most vital factor. It is important, yes; but other things are far more important.

I only hope to God you never have to use this knowledge.
 

Snattlerake

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C&P of an old post I made on the Kansas CCW forum.

It has been my observation that when those of us who are into guns start talking about the defensive uses of guns, the only thing usually discussed is the caliber of the gun. I have read statements to the effect that caliber is crucial. Some folks seem to feel like this is the main factor in who will win or lose the fight if, God forbid, one occurs.

Hopefully, we can use this post to shed a little light on the subject. So, I am going to give you the most important rule of gun fighting right now. It is

Avoid them!!!

In spite of the 'castle doctrine' law that was passed the same year as Kansas' CCW law, saying in effect that we do not have a duty to retreat from anyplace that we have a lawful right to be, it is still a very good idea to retreat from the scene if you can do so without endangering either yourself or those that you have a duty to protect. The gun, which after a long and arduous process, you have finally won the legal right to carry, is there to protect your life or the life of your family in the event that the use of deadly force becomes necessary. It is not cowardly to retreat if you can; in fact, it shows prudence and good judgement on your part.

So, we now come to the question of what determines who wins a gunfight and who loses.
There are four main factors in surviving gunfights (always assuming that they cannot be avoided altogether). They are:

1. The willingness to shoot, sometimes called mental preparation. The most powerful wondergun in the world won't do you a bit of good if you are not willing to use it if you have to.

2. Sound tactics; i.e. the use of effective cover and/or concealment if there is any available. Don't be like Dirty Harry in Sudden Impact, standing dramatically out in the open with your 44 Auto-Mag. If your foe shoots while you are doing something as stupid as this, that Auto-Mag might as well be a Jennings 22.

3. Bullet placement. A hit with 38 special beats the hell out of a miss with a 500S&W. Likewise, a 32 bullet hitting your spine is going to do more damage than a 45 in the muscle of your leg.

4. Caliber. This is the least important variable. About all a heavier caliber will do as opposed to a smaller one is give you little more margin for error.

So, don't depend on caliber as the most vital factor. It is important, yes; but other things are far more important.

I only hope to God you never have to use this knowledge.
Carrying a gun is a right but is also a big responsibility. I carry the largest caliber my poor old bones can handle at the time. I do not look for trouble anymore but if it comes, I'm ready to assess the situation and have a last resort handy.

I have mixed emotions about the new Byrna semiautomatic pepper ball gun that has no restrictions on carry. You can have it on you anytime anywhere. Those funny looking gun signs mean nothing and the laws about concealed open carry do not apply.
1. It could be mistaken for a gun by the bad guy, the good guy and the police.
2. I've seen people take straight pepper spray shots to the eyes and still fight through it.
 

Hooper

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Carrying a gun is a right but is also a big responsibility. I carry the largest caliber my poor old bones can handle at the time. I do not look for trouble anymore but if it comes, I'm ready to assess the situation and have a last resort handy.

I have mixed emotions about the new Byrna semiautomatic pepper ball gun that has no restrictions on carry. You can have it on you anytime anywhere. Those funny looking gun signs mean nothing and the laws about concealed open carry do not apply.
1. It could be mistaken for a gun by the bad guy, the good guy and the police.
2. I've seen people take straight pepper spray shots to the eyes and still fight through it.
You heard the old saying

He brought pepper spray to a Gunfight.

Pepper spray is for going to the restaurant and doing table tricks spicing the main course up.
 

KroyWen

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Our best asset is our brain, mental awareness , especially in the public arena.
…..Everything previously stated above is good by GERHARD 1 . ….The red/yellow/green light mental awareness strategy is crucial in what determines the success or failure of any potential lethal encounter…..Situational Awareness….Easy to state, crazy hard to employ every moment we should though, as life happens…..So , this is where the proponents of practice practice practice to develope instinctual responses are correct….Volumes , and gallons of ink are spilled on this topic.
 

Hooper

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I have been looking for a video of a dude at a walmart who was trying to follow a would be gunman who he seen entering a walmart with a weapon drawn. It shows him stalking the gunman trying to maneuver for a shot, while at the same time he was being followed by a woman who was with the gunman. She had entered about 25 feet behind the gunman, the would be hero never seen her. He can not see anything now, he is dead.

Sometimes you might think you have the edge when in fact someone else is watching you watching your target.
When you choose to carry it can make you like a fish in a barrel, not necessarily the protector you may think you are.
Always no you will be outnumbered and outgunned in almost every situation.
When and if it comes that time, also know the one you are up against has already made the decision he has made, you will only be reacting to the situation they have created. You will almost always be at a disadvantage in the interaction. When you think you are safe you are the most vulnerable. Your first move should be some type of cover, if you can not protect yourself you can not stop a threat.
 

Aries

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I have been looking for a video of a dude at a walmart who was trying to follow a would be gunman who he seen entering a walmart with a weapon drawn. It shows him stalking the gunman trying to maneuver for a shot, while at the same time he was being followed by a woman who was with the gunman. She had entered about 25 feet behind the gunman, the would be hero never seen her. He can not see anything now, he is dead.

Sometimes you might think you have the edge when in fact someone else is watching you watching your target.
When you choose to carry it can make you like a fish in a barrel, not necessarily the protector you may think you are.
Always no you will be outnumbered and outgunned in almost every situation.
When and if it comes that time, also know the one you are up against has already made the decision he has made, you will only be reacting to the situation they have created. You will almost always be at a disadvantage in the interaction. When you think you are safe you are the most vulnerable. Your first move should be some type of cover, if you can not protect yourself you can not stop a threat.
I couldn't find it either but I believe that was in St. Louis, they shot a couple of police officers I think in McDonalds, then ran into Walmart where what you describe happened. I've seen the video, but a couple of minutes searching with that info didn't turn anything up, maybe some details will help you find it if I am remembering correctly.
 

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