Fakes and Forgeries

[milsurp2.0]

With the big Tulsa show coming up I figured I would put some info out here for the casual collector. With the release of the Pacific series there is a renewed interest in Japanese firearms. Here are some fakes that have come out recently. This one is pretty good. From the top view you can hardly tell the receiver has been ground, polished and restamped with a mum.

But with a ruler or a DL or CC if at the show it becomes evident because of the dip. Also the area of grinding is more evident because of the smoothness and lack of machining lines.

 

[milsurp2.0]

Heres an unground mum but struck with a file so it is defaced and definitely not a forgery. Look at this gas relief hole compared to the first photo in post #1. You can tell the first one is distorted due to metal removal.

And here is an obvious fake as you can see the original mum under the new one.

And this one is a little better but still a bungled job.

 

[Boehlertaught]

I am still completely shocked folks do this kind of stuff. Particularly with a simple collectable like a Japanese rifle. They are cool but to get rich faking these things you would have to fake many thousands of them. Folks must do this kind of thing simply to just be jerks and to know they deceived someone.

 

[Lurker66]

So do you call the seller on it? Id hate gettin ripped off like that.

 

[milsurp2.0]

So do you call the seller on it? Id hate gettin ripped off like that.

Well. It doesn't do any good. They know what it is before you point it out to them. Some may honestly not know what they have. I dont think you have to worry so much about smaller shows with local dealers. Wahnenmachers has dealers from all over the country so you never know what you're going to run into. Generally going on a moral crusade against a crooked dealer is like rolling througha stop sign.

 

[Lurker66]

Lol, gotcha.

 

[AKguy1985]

Another big section to fake is german rifles.

 

[Perplexed]

I am still completely shocked folks do this kind of stuff. Particularly with a simple collectable like a Japanese rifle. They are cool but to get rich faking these things you would have to fake many thousands of them. Folks must do this kind of thing simply to just be jerks and to know they deceived someone.

Well, one of the first things an Arisaka collector looks for is an intact mum - that feature alone can affect the value of a rifle to a considerable degree, especially if the rifle is intact otherwise. So yes, faking the mum can be lucrative, unfortunately.

Another area of fakery is the set of cartouches on a M1 Garand stock. A faked Winchester inspection stamp can make the value of an otherwise excellent stock jump from $150 to $400 or more, depending on the stamp used. The metal dies used to make these stamps are easily obtained off eBay, and unscrupulous jerks aren't shy about using them to make money. The fakes usually aren't difficult to spot, but some are very well done and require an expert eye to call out. This is why I don't buy a M1 stock with clear cartouches from anyone except the CMP or a collector with impeccable feedback.

 

[henschman]

All that on a rifle that is worth, at most, what, like $350?! That requires a lot of time, effort, and hardware to make something worth maybe $50-100 more. Some people are unbelievable.

 

[milsurp2.0]

Well, one of the first things an Arisaka collector looks for is an intact mum - that feature alone can affect the value of a rifle to a considerable degree, especially if the rifle is intact otherwise. So yes, faking the mum can be lucrative, unfortunately.

Another area of fakery is the set of cartouches on a M1 Garand stock. A faked Winchester inspection stamp can make the value of an otherwise excellent stock jump from $150 to $400 or more, depending on the stamp used. The metal dies used to make these stamps are easily obtained off eBay, and unscrupulous jerks aren't shy about using them to make money. The fakes usually aren't difficult to spot, but some are very well done and require an expert eye to call out. This is why I don't buy a M1 stock with clear cartouches from anyone except the CMP or a collector with impeccable feedback.

I dont know how people can justify an all matching all original piece when it comes to M1's and carbines. Nothings numbered so how can you tell if just going by makers marks?