Family Says Moore Police Beat Father To Death

[caojyn]

All this over a slap too. Let that be a lesson to all the parents out there.

 

[excat]

MOORE, Oklahoma - New details were revealed Wednesday night on a key piece of evidence involving a metro man who died in police custody. News 9 showed cell phone video of part of the incident. Now, we're learning what's in a second video that shows the entire thing.

Luis Rodriguez died Feb. 15 after a family fight in the parking lot of the Warren Theater in Moore. His wife took cell phone video of some of the police involvement and now the attorney for one of the Moore officers explains what he saw in the theater's surveillance video.

"We have nothing to hide," said attorney Scott Adams.

Adams is representing Moore Police Officer Ryan Minnard. Adams says he watched the surveillance video with Moore Police's Internal Affairs Division when they interviewed Minnard.

"Officer Minnard walks up, says, ‘Hey we are investigating a crime here, need your identification.' Subject refuses, starts to take off, gets into a fighting stance," said Adams.


The subject is Luis Rodriguez, whose wife had just slapped their daughter during a fight. News 9 asked Adams to explain the "fighting stance" Rodriguez allegedly took.

"He took this, I'd say, a step back and got into a stance that was an aggressive stance," said Adams. "Officer Minnard grabs his left hand to take it back behind his back. When he does, the individual shrugs and throws him down to the ground. He pulls him with him and they go to the ground."

Adams says pepper spray was used as officers struggled to handcuff Rodriguez.


"There's no beating at all and I think that needs to be made clear is that during both the videos, and you can watch them both. There is not any kind of a beating."

Adams says officers are trained to take suspects to the ground this way and even the knee on the back is a textbook move to gain control.

"I hate it for the Rodriguez's. It was a very tragic event, but you know things happen whenever you resist from the police like that on lawful commands."

The attorney for Luis Rodriguez's family says he has asked to see the Warren Theater video, but the theater and Moore Police have not made that happen.

http://www.news9.com/story/24835459...fficer-shares-new-details-on-in-custody-death

That brings up 2 questions for me... what constitutes a "lawful command" ? - Just because they may be on official police business, does this give them the right/authority to command anyone they want, especially someone that is not guilty of committing any crime? Just because an officer suspects someone may be the individual of a crime, but with no evidence, does that give them the right to command/detain/struggle with said person with no other information or facts?

 

[Dave70968]

I'm sad for the family and I'm sad for the cops, but if the mom doesn't assault her daughter in public...

So the guy's right not to be killed is dependent upon somebody else's actions, not his own?

and/or the husband shows his ID

Does Oklahoma have a statute requiring a pedestrian to show his papers upon demand? If not, how is failure to do so justification for detention, arrest, or physical force?

 

[SMS]

Yeah I get your point SMS, and dont necessarily disagree. I have stayed away from this thread until more was known so as to not get caught up in the BS, but it does seem that the suspect was well subdued long before the police/security detail stopped the application of force. That is my major concern at this point. If they had him subdued, why was it necessary to park them selves on his back when it was clear he was in distress?
I realize that the procedure is an effective method to retain control of a subject, it just seems to go beyond what was necessary to control the situation and if it had not been used perhaps the individual would be alive. Of course that is conjecture, but that is all we have except for what is in the video.

Agreed

Does Oklahoma have a statute requiring a pedestrian to show his papers upon demand? If not, how is failure to do so justification for detention, arrest, or physical force?

He wasn't some random pedestrian..he was an individual involved in a public disturbance that the officers were responding to and investigating. I think their need and/or authority to identify involved parties, during an investigation of a crime is well documented, vetted, and upheld.

 

[Oklahomabassin]

That brings up 2 questions for me... what constitutes a "lawful command" ? - Just because they may be on official police business, does this give them the right/authority to command anyone they want, especially someone that is not guilty of committing any crime? Just because an officer suspects someone may be the individual of a crime, but with no evidence, does that give them the right to command/detain/struggle with said person with no other information or facts?

Even if it is not lawful, I think the best course of action wouldn't have been fight to your death trying to prove a point. Show your ID and be calm. If a constitutional right or civil right was violated, fight it out later in court.

I am ageeing with SMS on this. If the man would have shown his ID and answered questions or explained the situation. He would be at home with his family.

 

[Dave70968]

Agreed



He wasn't some random pedestrian..he was an individual involved in a public disturbance that the officers were responding to and investigating. I think their need and/or authority to identify involved parties, during an investigation of a crime is well documented, vetted, and upheld.

What you think and what is reality may or may not be the same thing. The Supreme Court ruled in Hiibel v. Sixth Judicial District Court of Nevada, 542 U.S. 177 (2004) that an officer in a state with a "stop-and-identify" statute may ask for name, address, etc. if the stop is "based on specific, objective facts establishing reasonable suspicion to believe the suspect was involved in criminal activity." Further, the court specifically noted that the statute in question did not require the suspect to produce any kind of documentation, just to answer the question.

So, I will ask the question again: does Oklahoma have a statute requiring a pedestrian (and I say that to distinguish him from a driver, who does have to produce a driver's license upon demand) to show his papers upon demand of a law enforcement officer? I'd also ask whether Oklahoma has any stop-and-identify statute (even one that doesn't require a showing of papers), and whether the officer had "specific, objective facts establishing reasonable suspicion" that the decedent was involved in criminal activity.

 

[excat]

Even if it is not lawful, I think the best course of action wouldn't have been fight to your death trying to prove a point. Show your ID and be calm. If a constitutional right or civil right was violated, fight it out later in court.

I am ageeing with SMS on this. If the man would have shown his ID and answered questions or explained the situation. He would be at home with his family.

Well definitely. Even as wrong as a cop may be, I always remind myself who holds the short end of the stick in any situation with LEO. Show your ID, and live to tell the tale another day. I also know exactly how it feels when your family is your primary concern, and someone is trying to remove you from that concerned situation, your head isn't exactly in full cooperation mode.

 

[TedKennedy]

Even as wrong as a cop may be, I always remind myself who holds the short end of the stick in any situation with LEO.

That's a fact. Doesn't matter if it's Stasi, KGB, or your local PD, same principle applies.

 

[SMS]

So, I will ask the question again: does Oklahoma have a statute requiring a pedestrian (and I say that to distinguish him from a driver, who does have to produce a driver's license upon demand) to show his papers upon demand of a law enforcement officer?

Good questions...but take it farther and ask "In Oklahoma, does a law enforcement officer, in the process of investigating a crime, have the authority to detain a suspect who refuses to identify themselves?"

The lack of a "Stop and Identify" law that criminalizes a refusal to identify does not equal a lack of authority to detain an individual during the investigation of a crime. His refusal to identify himself, coupled with throwing an officer to the ground just aggravated an already confusing scene...IMHO.

 

[TedKennedy]

Good questions...but take it farther and ask "In Oklahoma, does a law enforcement officer, in the process of investigating a crime, have the authority to detain a suspect who refuses to identify themselves?"

The lack of a "Stop and Identify" law that criminalizes a refusal to identify does not equal a lack of authority to detain an individual during the investigation of a crime. His refusal to identify himself, coupled with throwing an officer to the ground after officer Minnard grabbed himjust aggravated an already confusing scene...IMHO.

Lack of authority to detain?