FBI switching to 9mm

[Repubiman]

Interesting ballistics article on 9mm vs. .40 &. .45 cal. And
why the FBI is switching out its agents .40's for 9mm's.

http://loadoutroom.com/12077/fbi-going-9mm-comes-science/

 

[Lurker66]

Interesting ballistics article on 9mm vs. .40 &. .45 cal. And
why the FBI is switching out its agents .40's for 9mm's.

http://loadoutroom.com/12077/fbi-going-9mm-comes-science/

Low recoil, high capacity. Ya gotta hit what your shooting at or caliber doesn't matter.

 

[Lone Wolf '49]

Low recoil, high capacity. Ya gotta hit what your shooting at or caliber doesn't matter.

This started some time ago. No expert here of course, but a lot of LE Agencies have begun the process. Lot more I have to say on that BUT DGMS.

 

[pritch]

My suspicion is that too many female agents couldn't qualify.

 

[farmerbyron]

My suspicion is that too many female agents couldn't qualify.

From the article.

The Ballistic Research Facility has conducted a test which compares similar sized Glock pistols in both .40 S&W and 9mm calibers, to determine if more accurate and faster hits are achievable with one versus the other. To date, the majority of the study participants have shot more quickly and more accurately with 9mm caliber Glock pistols. The 9mm provides struggling shooters the best chance of success while improving the speed and accuracy of the most skilled shooters.

There is not much difference in "stopping power" between standard calibers with modern projectiles. That being the case having a round that allows quicker and more accurate shots for all shooters is going to be preferred. There is nothing to be gained by machismo about having a .4 in front of your caliber. Plenty of perps have taken multiple .40 and .45 hollow point rounds and still continued the fight. Accuracy is life. Caliber is a side show.

 

[Lurkerinthewoods]

Typical gubberment crap. Military is getting out of the 9mm because they feel it's inadequate and the FBI wants to jump into it...

Maybe they can both save the taxpayers some dollars and just swap sidearms. Problem solved.

I guess if they want to say shot placement is what kills ( which I do agree), then maybe they should go with the 22LR round. I heard that round will just flop around in the skull or chest cavity destroying whatever it travels through.

 

[farmerbyron]

Typical gubberment crap. Military is getting out of the 9mm because they feel it's inadequate and the FBI wants to jump into it...

Maybe they can both save the taxpayers some dollars and just swap sidearms. Problem solved.

I guess if they want to say shot placement is what kills ( which I do agree), then maybe they should go with the 22LR round. I heard that round will just flop around in the skull or chest cavity destroying whatever it travels through.

The military is limited to ball ammo, LE is not. When you remove the advancements in projectiles then yes, a larger caliber can make a difference in down range performance. The whole reason that 9mm is falling back into favor is the advancement in bullet design which allows performance similar to and in some cases, greater than .40 or .45.

 

[Brandi]

I have defensive handguns in 9mm, .40S&W and .45acp (in addition to revolver calibers) and that's more because I like the gun more than the caliber. The FBI can do whatever they want, when I started out as a LEO everyone pretty much copyed what the FBI did and it was a giant CF. I traded my 9mm in during the big migration and went to the .45acp along with most other LEO's with the exception of those who went with the .40S&W. There weren't any problems after that, the .45acp is a big, hard hitting caliber that is easy to control so no issues there. Contrary to everything I've heard about people having issues shooting the .40S&W I've never seen it. I've only ever seen two officers struggle with qualifying, both males and both were just not familiar enough with a handgun, it had nothing to do with caliber. They were pulled aside and given additional training after which both qualified with good scores and went to work. The only gun I ever saw a female rookie have issues with was the shotgun and that thing beat everyone black and blue that day.

Now the FBI says with modern +P or +P+ 9mm they can get results similar to those that they got with the .40S&W and .45acp. That may be but if they have that many agents struggling to handle the recoil of standard pressure .40S&W or standard pressure .45acp, I question how they are now able to better handle hotter 9mm? The capacity issue is a given, it's the one thing that I loved about my original 9mm but the issue now seems to be choosing a caliber that all their agents can handle, not capacity. So if new +P or +P+ 9mm (depending on what they end up using) is now as good as standard pressure .40 or .45, why not compare it against +P or "heavy" .40S&W and .45acp? That would be apples to apples then wouldn't it? I'm assuming that the +P/+P+/heavy loads in the 9mm aren't too hot to be unmanageable while the same versions in .40 and .45 are not maneagable. Who knows...the FBI has always made some really bizarre gun choices. Regardless, I'll stick with the .45acp as my preferred defense caliber, there's no question with it.

Or...maybe they are changing the caliber so they can get all of the militarys potentially soon to be defunct 9mm M9's...they get all the handguns they want and they make sure they never end up in the hands of those evil civilians.

 

[Shadowrider]

The military is limited to ball ammo, LE is not. When you remove the advancements in projectiles then yes, a larger caliber can make a difference in down range performance. The whole reason that 9mm is falling back into favor is the advancement in bullet design which allows performance similar to and in some cases, greater than .40 or .45.

^^^ This. Back in the '80s and '90s I never would have thought I'd even own a 9mm unless it was just a "BBQ gun" along the lines of a Sig P210 or something. Bullet construction has advanced so much it's basically equivalent to a .45ACP now days and I carry one frequently.

 

[dennishoddy]

The military is limited to ball ammo, LE is not. When you remove the advancements in projectiles then yes, a larger caliber can make a difference in down range performance. The whole reason that 9mm is falling back into favor is the advancement in bullet design which allows performance similar to and in some cases, greater than .40 or .45.

So, your thinking the ammo manufacturers are not making advances in .40 and .45 projectiles right along with the 9mm?
The +P .45?
The "advanced projectiles" in 9mm are available in .40 and .45.