FBI switching to 9mm

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Sanford

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I am not your history teacher - If you don't know that 1911 and 45ACP was commissioned, designed and produced together, sorry it's your loss. Browning himself was working on a smaller caliber at the time, but was forced by political BS to make a 45LC copy.

Not quite. The 1911 pistol followed the cartridge development.

Colt had been working with Browning on a .41 caliber cartridge in 1904, and in 1905 when the Cavalry asked for a .45 caliber equivalent Colt modified the pistol design to fire an enlarged version of the prototype .41 round. The result from Colt was the Model 1905 and the new .45 ACP cartridge. The original round that passed the testing fired a 200 grain (13 g) bullet at 900 ft/s (275 m/s), but after a number of rounds of revisions between Winchester Repeating Arms, Frankford Arsenal, and Union Metallic Cartridge, it ended up using a 230 grain (15 g) bullet fired at about 850 ft/s (260 m/s). The resulting .45-caliber cartridge, named the .45 ACP, was similar in performance to the .45 Schofield cartridge, and only slightly less powerful (but significantly shorter) than the .45 Colt cartridges the Cavalry was using.

Even though the 1911 shares a common lineage with the 1905 the design that would eventually become the M1911 wasn't finalized until several years later in 1909.

I got actual data from 1987 issue and 2011 issue ammo - you keep throwing some papers of unknown origin at me ... YOU LOOSE!!!!

"papers of unknown origin"? TM 43-0001-27 is titled "Army Ammunition Data Sheets, Small Caliber Ammunition, FSC 1305", published by Headquarters, Department of the Army. I don't have a link, but I'll make a copy and send it to you for ten cents a page plus shipping if you want.

Do you have the government contract number for that 1987 and 2011 issue ammo? If you do I might be able to research the solicitation and verify the requirements and any authorized deviations, otherwise its origin and adherence to standards is significantly more "unknown" than the TM page I posted.
 
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CHenry

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I think Sanford knows his stuff and Mo is regurgitating some crap he read on another forum or something. I know he puts way too much weight on conceal ability, weight and reliability...like a .45 in a good 1911 isnt reliable as hell.
(concealability isnt a word)
 

Erick

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I am not your history teacher - If you don't know that 1911 and 45ACP was commissioned, designed and produced together, sorry it's your loss. Browning himself was working on a smaller caliber at the time, but was forced by political BS to make a 45LC copy.

Well I learned something today....I think.
 

Sanford

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I think Sanford knows his stuff and Mo is regurgitating some crap he read on another forum or something. I know he puts way too much weight on conceal ability, weight and reliability...like a .45 in a good 1911 isnt reliable as hell. (concealability isnt a word)

Not all that much - just what I've read. Really not much of a 1911 guy myself though I do respect their their track record for longevity and reliability. Mostly just exercising the art of argument here; I need to keep the skill level up and don't dare practice on my wife. Who knows though, I might need it someday for something that actually matters!
 

OKCShooter

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I know he puts way too much weight on conceal ability, weight and reliability.

Regardless of what side of the debate you're on, we are discussing carry weapons and this may be the single Dumbest statement I've ever read.

Not just in this thread, but on the Internet.

Congrats!
 

CHenry

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Regardless of what side of the debate you're on, we are discussing carry weapons and this may be the single Dumbest statement I've ever read.

Not just in this thread, but on the Internet.

Congrats!

Oh your snipet makes it look rather dumb yes. Conceal ability: I dont conceal so that has 0 weight on what I carry Even if I did, I can find a compact 1911 to conceal. Weigh: we are talking about 2 guns that are almost identical in weight depending on which model you have. My Browning HP 9mm weighs only a little less than a 1911 compact. That factor doesnt sway me on which to carry at all. Dependability: both my HP and my 1911 are equally dependable. That has 0 weight on what I carry.
The point is, these 3 factors shouldnt dictate the caliber of your carry gun. There are models out there that provide these 3 things in either caliber.
 

OKCShooter

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Oh your snipet makes it look rather dumb yes. Conceal ability: I dont conceal so that has 0 weight on what I carry Even if I did, I can find a compact 1911 to conceal. Weigh: we are talking about 2 guns that are almost identical in weight depending on which model you have. My Browning HP 9mm weighs only a little less than a 1911 compact. That factor doesnt sway me on which to carry at all. Dependability: both my HP and my 1911 are equally dependable. That has 0 weight on what I carry.
The point is, these 3 factors shouldnt dictate the caliber of your carry gun. There are models out there that provide these 3 things in either caliber.

I assume you mean "snippet"?

Regardless, your explanation isn't good defense to such a stupid statement.

If you're saying that 9mm doesn't have an inherent advantage in weight (both ammo and platform) and therefore ability to conceal, then double Congrats, you just made an even dumber post.
 

CHenry

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I assume you mean "snippet"?

Regardless, your explanation isn't good defense to such a stupid statement.

If you're saying that 9mm doesn't have an inherent advantage in weight (both ammo and platform) and therefore ability to conceal, then double Congrats, you just made an even dumber post.
Edit. I'll b nice
 
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