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Message: <blockquote data-quote="hrdware" data-source="post: 2267301" data-attributes="member: 24475">I will attempt to answer this in two parts: what the law says, and what happens in practice.  First the disclaimer - I am not a lawyer.My interpretation of "what the law says":State law is specific in that the state has preemption in all things firearms, however they do not have preemption when it comes to trespass laws.  In doing some reading on various city laws, the definition of "trespass" can vary.  Some locations specify that you trespass when you remain in a location after you have been asked to leave...our normal standard definition.  However, the city of Sapulpa also has this definition for trespass: "Trespass shall also mean the act of entering upon or remaining on private property when such is plainly forbidden by signs, markings, or otherwise..."  I read this to mean if a gunbuster sign is posted in Sapulpa, the sign serves as your notice. (Others will disagree with me I'm sure, but this is how I read it.  Maybe Sapulpa gunbuster signs would have to indicate you are trespassing if carrying.  I don't know the answer, but I am going to assume they don't for the rest of my discussion.).  Therefore it is my opinion that in Sapulpa, carrying past a gunbuster sign could get you charged with trespassing without having to be asked to leave.  My interpretation of "what happens in practice":It is again, my opinion, that if an officer is dispatched for trespassing, the officer will first try and get you to leave peacefully and just be on your way.  I believe that the officer has to witness you being asked to leave and your refusal but I'm not 100% certain of this.  (I'm sure one of our LEO members will be along shortly and correct me if I'm wrong).  It is after all, in the officers best interest to try and get you to leave peacefully than for them to have to cite you.  If you are refusing to leave a place, do you really think a piece of paper is going to make you happier to leave?  At this point the encounter would most likely devolve into a physical confrontation, something most officers would probably want to avoid.Now, in order to claim Self Defense, 3 conditions have to be met.  First, you have to have reasonable fear of death or great bodily harm to you or another.  Second, you have to be in a place you are legally allowed to be. Third, you can't be doing anything illegal.  So we will assume that as an SDA holder, the first condition has been met.  For the second condition, you can't be someplace you aren't legally allowed to be...a prohibited place for example, or someplace you have been told you aren't allowed in the store any longer for some reason.  So we will assume you can be in the local convenience store without issue.  Third, you can't be doing anything illegal.  In locations where trespassing does not have a definition that includes signage, you aren't doing anything illegal if you haven't been asked to leave.  Now in Sapulpa where there is a definition for signage, are you automatically violating the trespass law??  If so, then self defense would not fly because you are doing something illegal. (I'm sure I'll get flamed for those last couple of sentences.)Luckily though, as of November 1, 2013, new state law goes into effect that does wonders for clearing this up.To me this indicates that if you carrying past a gunbuster sign in and of itself is not illegal (no matter what a city definition of trespass is).  The only illegal act would be not leaving when asked to do so, thus resulting in a citation and fine up to $250.</blockquote>

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