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<blockquote data-quote="Aries" data-source="post: 3870299" data-attributes="member: 44328"><p>I love this debate. It always goes exactly the same way, for exactly the same reasons.</p><p></p><p>Because it's not just one debate. It's actually two separate debates. It's two sides, both making their arguments as if they are right and the other is wrong, and neither side realizing they are talking about different things (there is an intersection point, but the arguments are not mutually exclusive). And it goes on and on because NEITHER SIDE ACTUALLY LISTENS TO THE OTHER SIDE.</p><p></p><p>Side A: The thief is responsible, don't blame the victim</p><p>Side B: The victim should be smart, and not make themselves a bigger target</p><p></p><p>So... side A is actually correct. You SHOULD be able to leave your gun anywhere without someone stealing it, a woman SHOULD be able to wear whatever she wants or go wherever she wants without worrying about being raped, and you SHOULD be able to walk through a dark alley with $100 bills hanging out of your pockets and not be robbed. And IF someone takes your gun, rapes you, or robs you, They, and only they, are responsible for what they do.</p><p></p><p>But... in the real world, there ARE people who will take advantage of those situations, and WILL rob, rape or steal from you. So you can't do those things safely.</p><p></p><p>Side B is actually making a DIFFERENT point that is also true. BECAUSE there are people who will take advantage of those opportunities, it's just smart to take steps to reduce the odds of being a victim. This is also true.</p><p></p><p>Side A is arguing from the perspective of how things SHOULD be.</p><p>Side B is arguing from the perspective of how things actually are.</p><p></p><p>And this analysis will be ignored for the same reason the debate goes on and on. Because everyone wants to argue their side, without listening to any other perspective. Actually, I'm using hyperbole. There are a few who recognize both issues, but the heat comes from Side A and Side B believing they are exclusively right, and not actually hearing what the other side is saying.</p><p></p><p>It's fascinating, because as many times as I've seen it on message boards, it always goes exactly the same way. It's basically four pages so far of people talking and not listening. Carry on, it's entertaining!</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Aries, post: 3870299, member: 44328"] I love this debate. It always goes exactly the same way, for exactly the same reasons. Because it's not just one debate. It's actually two separate debates. It's two sides, both making their arguments as if they are right and the other is wrong, and neither side realizing they are talking about different things (there is an intersection point, but the arguments are not mutually exclusive). And it goes on and on because NEITHER SIDE ACTUALLY LISTENS TO THE OTHER SIDE. Side A: The thief is responsible, don't blame the victim Side B: The victim should be smart, and not make themselves a bigger target So... side A is actually correct. You SHOULD be able to leave your gun anywhere without someone stealing it, a woman SHOULD be able to wear whatever she wants or go wherever she wants without worrying about being raped, and you SHOULD be able to walk through a dark alley with $100 bills hanging out of your pockets and not be robbed. And IF someone takes your gun, rapes you, or robs you, They, and only they, are responsible for what they do. But... in the real world, there ARE people who will take advantage of those situations, and WILL rob, rape or steal from you. So you can't do those things safely. Side B is actually making a DIFFERENT point that is also true. BECAUSE there are people who will take advantage of those opportunities, it's just smart to take steps to reduce the odds of being a victim. This is also true. Side A is arguing from the perspective of how things SHOULD be. Side B is arguing from the perspective of how things actually are. And this analysis will be ignored for the same reason the debate goes on and on. Because everyone wants to argue their side, without listening to any other perspective. Actually, I'm using hyperbole. There are a few who recognize both issues, but the heat comes from Side A and Side B believing they are exclusively right, and not actually hearing what the other side is saying. It's fascinating, because as many times as I've seen it on message boards, it always goes exactly the same way. It's basically four pages so far of people talking and not listening. Carry on, it's entertaining! [/QUOTE]
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