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The Range
Rifle & Shotgun Discussion
Help in picking a good AR?
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<blockquote data-quote="KurtM" data-source="post: 1417941" data-attributes="member: 6064"><p>Well to finish this off, here is what Paul Howe has to say about this deal. Now Paul is Ex-Delta, fought in Samolia, and is a tactical instructor of some renown. </p><p></p><p>"I enjoy reading the chat forums on who has the better AR and that Iron Sights are out of date. Homework must be accompanied with field work. Some folks produce charts, we produce brass. </p><p></p><p>The most common problem I have seen with the M4 style system is not the manufacturer, but the operator using it. I still have students coming to an instructor class that cannot break the weapon down for cleaning. Also, many do not know how to properly lubricate it. </p><p></p><p>I see all brands and they run fine when cleaned and lubricated. I also see high dollar guns choke as often as the low dollar guns. Sometimes it is the magazine. Sometimes it is a critical component. We had a Noveske last class and the shooter found the firing pin bent (nice curve to it) and the end where the hammer strikes was visibly worn down as if made of a cheap metal. We also had a BCM charging handle that warped and went south. A DPMS Frankenstein gun did choke until the operator lubed it and then it ran just fine. Finally, an LMT upper had problems and it was determined it was the result of a bad magazine. </p><p></p><p>In the end, it is just like any other piece of equipment and will work as long as you properly care for it. If you don’t know much about the guns, take a reputable class and learn how to operate and maintain your weapon. Rent one if possible and then make an informed buying decision from there. Just as I don’t advise buying a high dollar BMW as someone’s first car, I don’t believe you should buy the most expensive weapon as your first weapon. I would never buy one of my kids a high-dollar rifle for their first weapon. I would give them a “beater” to shoot and care for. Once they prove themselves worthy, I might consider one as Christmas present. </p><p></p><p>As for a Bushmaster or DPMS being inferior, I don’t buy it. There are probably more DPMS and Bushmaster guns in the hands of Law Enforcement than any other weapon and I know those guns have put more bad guys in the ground than all of the high-dollar guns combined. If cared for properly, they run and run well. There are a few “cult” like followers of other shooting instructors who say that if you don’t have this gun, your gun will fail and you will get killed, etc&#8230;. They are arrogant and snobbish at best. </p><p></p><p>I had more guns choke last month in the instructor class than we could keep a log on. If we had tried to log all of the problems, the class would have stalled. Weapons maintenance, load procedures and magazines were the primary culprit-not the weapon. Many of the instructor students were “too proud” to log in the book that their rifle failed. They would quietly correct the problem and continue on. </p><p></p><p>As for irons being outdated, I have never seen the batteries die on irons or irons not work when they were needed. As for optics being better at night, they may be slightly better. Both iron and optics shooters need a good light as you must discriminate before you can shoot, so the discrimination process is going to slow you down in any case. Realistically without magnification, you cannot discriminate at night until about 15 yards and clearly see what is in someone’s hands. I have also seen a great deal of optics fail in both combat and competitions. When they did fail, they did not go to back-up optics, they went to back up irons. I have friends whose EO Techs dots “washed out” in bright sunlight and they had to go to irons to make a real world shot. No one talks about these cases. </p><p></p><p>Finally, for all you folks with those funky compensators that look like they were manufactured by a drunken machinist, they don’t help. In fact, they are dangerous in the tactical world. They abuse all shooters and instructors around them and can actually endanger other shooters when firing in tight tactical situations. When I see one on a rifle, it tells me the shooter has no tactical sense or background. They may help you shoot a ½ second faster on a 3 second drill, but the disadvantages outweigh the advantages by far. It is 5.56, not a .308 and it is like putting a compensator on a 9mm. </p><p></p><p>Sorry to rant. It gets old seeing folks spend money on gimmicks that are supposed to help them shoot, vs. learning the proper fundamentals.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="KurtM, post: 1417941, member: 6064"] Well to finish this off, here is what Paul Howe has to say about this deal. Now Paul is Ex-Delta, fought in Samolia, and is a tactical instructor of some renown. "I enjoy reading the chat forums on who has the better AR and that Iron Sights are out of date. Homework must be accompanied with field work. Some folks produce charts, we produce brass. The most common problem I have seen with the M4 style system is not the manufacturer, but the operator using it. I still have students coming to an instructor class that cannot break the weapon down for cleaning. Also, many do not know how to properly lubricate it. I see all brands and they run fine when cleaned and lubricated. I also see high dollar guns choke as often as the low dollar guns. Sometimes it is the magazine. Sometimes it is a critical component. We had a Noveske last class and the shooter found the firing pin bent (nice curve to it) and the end where the hammer strikes was visibly worn down as if made of a cheap metal. We also had a BCM charging handle that warped and went south. A DPMS Frankenstein gun did choke until the operator lubed it and then it ran just fine. Finally, an LMT upper had problems and it was determined it was the result of a bad magazine. In the end, it is just like any other piece of equipment and will work as long as you properly care for it. If you don’t know much about the guns, take a reputable class and learn how to operate and maintain your weapon. Rent one if possible and then make an informed buying decision from there. Just as I don’t advise buying a high dollar BMW as someone’s first car, I don’t believe you should buy the most expensive weapon as your first weapon. I would never buy one of my kids a high-dollar rifle for their first weapon. I would give them a “beater” to shoot and care for. Once they prove themselves worthy, I might consider one as Christmas present. As for a Bushmaster or DPMS being inferior, I don’t buy it. There are probably more DPMS and Bushmaster guns in the hands of Law Enforcement than any other weapon and I know those guns have put more bad guys in the ground than all of the high-dollar guns combined. If cared for properly, they run and run well. There are a few “cult” like followers of other shooting instructors who say that if you don’t have this gun, your gun will fail and you will get killed, etc…. They are arrogant and snobbish at best. I had more guns choke last month in the instructor class than we could keep a log on. If we had tried to log all of the problems, the class would have stalled. Weapons maintenance, load procedures and magazines were the primary culprit-not the weapon. Many of the instructor students were “too proud” to log in the book that their rifle failed. They would quietly correct the problem and continue on. As for irons being outdated, I have never seen the batteries die on irons or irons not work when they were needed. As for optics being better at night, they may be slightly better. Both iron and optics shooters need a good light as you must discriminate before you can shoot, so the discrimination process is going to slow you down in any case. Realistically without magnification, you cannot discriminate at night until about 15 yards and clearly see what is in someone’s hands. I have also seen a great deal of optics fail in both combat and competitions. When they did fail, they did not go to back-up optics, they went to back up irons. I have friends whose EO Techs dots “washed out” in bright sunlight and they had to go to irons to make a real world shot. No one talks about these cases. Finally, for all you folks with those funky compensators that look like they were manufactured by a drunken machinist, they don’t help. In fact, they are dangerous in the tactical world. They abuse all shooters and instructors around them and can actually endanger other shooters when firing in tight tactical situations. When I see one on a rifle, it tells me the shooter has no tactical sense or background. They may help you shoot a ½ second faster on a 3 second drill, but the disadvantages outweigh the advantages by far. It is 5.56, not a .308 and it is like putting a compensator on a 9mm. Sorry to rant. It gets old seeing folks spend money on gimmicks that are supposed to help them shoot, vs. learning the proper fundamentals. [/QUOTE]
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