Help With Technical Legal Line Between LEO/Peace Officer and Non Official Persons

[p238shooter]

Thanks for the replies and opinions. I am trying to run through all the scenarios I might encounter before my CC gets here. I find it interesting that most of our laws seem to always leave a "gray" area in them in some way. I guess that is why we need so many additional laws to try to keep filling up the loopholes left in the original ones.

I will presume if someone identifies himself as a LEO and asks for my ID, I will pull out the CC permit at the same time, otherwise I will presume he is just making casual contact for information or to talk about the weather.

 

[Glocktogo]

You have to remember that most lawmakers at the state level have rarely had anything to do with either enforcing or prosecuting the laws they make. Some don't even bother to write their own proposed laws, letting someone in their office or even an outsider do it for them. Also, some laws are intentionally written in a vague and confusing manner, making them ripe for misuse and often unenforceable. This is often done so the lawmaker looks like they're doing something someone wants, when in fact they've done nothing more than waste everyone's time.

If state laws make your head swim, you should try reading and interpreting federal regulations for a living. It's enough to make you pull your hair out!

 

[dieseltech09]

Your statement I bolded is not accurate. You need to notify them any time you are in contact with them in an official capacity. I don't mean when they tell you something and your compliance immediately ends the contact (i.e., drive there, move away from the scene, etc.). But, anytime you're speaking to an officer in their official capacity, you need to notify.

This is your opinion and not the law. Ask 10 LEOs and you will get 10 different answers.

 

[MLR]

Originally Posted by okiebryan
Apparently some people want to let LEO know they are carrying when they aren't required to. I'm really not sure why. You only need to notify during the course of an arrest, detainment, or a traffic stop. That's all. No other time. Not when you pass them working off duty security, not when you see one in line at the OnCue (or QT), not when 3 or 4 of them are having lunch at the same diner as you, and certainly not when someone in the bathroom starts asking about your steely appendage...lol

Notifying unnecessarily may make some of the LEOs think that they can expect it from everyone.

Why do people insist on going overboard with the notifications? There has to be some psychological need that they are trying to fill. Approval? Being part of the "cool" crowd? I just don't get it.

Your statement I bolded is not accurate. You need to notify them any time you are in contact with them in an official capacity. I don't mean when they tell you something and your compliance immediately ends the contact (i.e., drive there, move away from the scene, etc.). But, anytime you're speaking to an officer in their official capacity, you need to notify.

I agree with the rest of your statement.

Glocktogo: The section of his post you highlighted in bold was taken straight out of the State Law. What other "official capacity" occasions were you referring to? Other than the detainment issue I have always thought the requirement were pretty straight forward.

Michael

 

[Glocktogo]

This is your opinion and not the law. Ask 10 LEOs and you will get 10 different answers.

Agreed. My point being that what I posted is my opinion, unfortunately it's backed by reality in the field. The law is vaguely written and subject to wide interpretation. Will it really matter how the law reads when you're on the wrong end of a ticked off LEO? Most folks don't recognize that just because a law doesn't specifically state something, that doesn't mean the officer is violating anyone's rights (by law) and forfeiting their qualified immunity. There is enough wiggle room in the statutes to drive a fleet of semi's through and you will not get any traction in a complaint against an officer for being overly aggressive on the subject. For this reason, I support the proposed revision to the notification clause. It's unfair to expect the citizen to divine whether they're being detained or not.

Originally Posted by okiebryan

Glocktogo: The section of his post you highlighted in bold was taken straight out of the State Law. What other "official capacity" occasions were you referring to? Other than the detainment issue I have always thought the requirement were pretty straight forward.

Michael

Vague detainment clause is overly vague. Notice I didn't state that "you shall" or "you must", which is legally binding phrasing. I said "you need to", which is stating a fact in evidence not supported by law. The advice I provided is sound advice, regardless of the phrasing of the actual law.

I spend more time in a day reading, interpreting, describing, explaining and enforcing laws and regulations than most officers do in a month. The terminology I use is not chosen by happenstance.

 

[okiebryan]

This is really easy. The first thing you need to do is to ascertain your status in regards to the officer you are in a conversation with.

Ask yourself the following questions:
1) Did I just get pulled over in my car? If yes then stop here. You must notify immediately.
2) Am I under arrest? If yes then stop here. You must notify immediately. If you don't know, then ask, "Am I under arrest?"
3) Am I being detained? If yes, then stop here. You must notify immediately. If unsure, then ask, "Am I being detained, or am I free to go?"
4) If you are not detained, then tell the cop, "I really don't have time to visit now. I'm going to just be on my way." Then walk away. No notification was necessary.

I'd make a flowchart, but I suck at computer graphics.

Stop trying to make this harder than it needs to be, and stop trying so hard to roll over and give up what little freedoms you have left.

 

[oklacowboy]

This is really easy. The first thing you need to do is to ascertain your status in regards to the officer you are in a conversation with.

Ask yourself the following questions:
1) Did I just get pulled over in my car? If yes then stop here. You must notify immediately.
2) Am I under arrest? If yes then stop here. You must notify immediately. If you don't know, then ask, "Am I under arrest?"
3) Am I being detained? If yes, then stop here. You must notify immediately. If unsure, then ask, "Am I being detained, or am I free to go?"
4) If you are not detained, then tell the cop, "I really don't have time to visit now. I'm going to just be on my way." Then walk away. No notification was necessary.

I'd make a flowchart, but I suck at computer graphics.

Stop trying to make this harder than it needs to be, and stop trying so hard to roll over and give up what little freedoms you have left.

Simple but very effective.