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<blockquote data-quote="Werewolf" data-source="post: 1473717" data-attributes="member: 239"><p>It may be just semantics but the reasonable man standard in OK <strong>is to the best of my knowledge</strong> not in use here.</p><p> </p><p>In OK what is required for the use of lethal force (with a number of exceptions others may want to discuss) are:</p><p> </p><p>1) Means - the assailant must have the ability to cause severe bodily harm or kill you. Which pretty much means he's got to have a weapon of some sort. If you shoot a guy that comes at you with a sharpened pencil and you kill him you best be prepared to prove to a jury of your peers he could have killed you with it. </p><p> </p><p>In addition - and I'm not sure of the veracity of this but it is what the attorney who taught the CCW class I attended 10 years ago stated: Disparity of force is not considered means in OK. If a 25 year old professional football player who weighs 300#, can bench press a volkswagon and do the 40 in 4 seconds comes after me barehanded, even though I am slow, old, out of shape and over weight I can't shoot him according to the attorney referenced above (I used that very example in the class). </p><p> </p><p>2) Opportunity - if your assailant is half a mile away with a knife he doesn't have opportunity. If he's 7 yards away he does.</p><p> </p><p>3) Intent - the assailant must demonstrate intent which can be hard. A citizen with a CCW and who is packing has the means and opportunity to kill you if he's nearby but there's no intent. Intent is the deal breaker. Intent is most easily proven by the assailant actually attacking. That sucks for it means the attacker will usually have the advantage of initiative in any encounter with a law abiding citizen.</p><p> </p><p>Those 3 requirements are not an OR. They are an AND. All three must be present for one to use lethal force legally against another in OK <strong>with some exceptions</strong> others may choose to elaborate on.</p><p> </p><p>So to answer the OP's question. If someone enters your business uninvited NO! you cannot shoot them unless they meet the criteria of 1 thru 3 above. And no you cannot shoot someone who enters your home uninvited either. They must enter your home ILLEGALLY (<em>there are circumstances where someone can be in your home uninvited but not illegally</em>). If someone enters your home illegally the SDA says they are presumed to be there to cause you bodily harm and if you choose to kill 'em you have an affirmative defense against criminal and civil charges (look up affirmative defense - it is not the pass many believe though in OK it usually works out that way).</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Werewolf, post: 1473717, member: 239"] It may be just semantics but the reasonable man standard in OK [B]is to the best of my knowledge[/B] not in use here. In OK what is required for the use of lethal force (with a number of exceptions others may want to discuss) are: 1) Means - the assailant must have the ability to cause severe bodily harm or kill you. Which pretty much means he's got to have a weapon of some sort. If you shoot a guy that comes at you with a sharpened pencil and you kill him you best be prepared to prove to a jury of your peers he could have killed you with it. In addition - and I'm not sure of the veracity of this but it is what the attorney who taught the CCW class I attended 10 years ago stated: Disparity of force is not considered means in OK. If a 25 year old professional football player who weighs 300#, can bench press a volkswagon and do the 40 in 4 seconds comes after me barehanded, even though I am slow, old, out of shape and over weight I can't shoot him according to the attorney referenced above (I used that very example in the class). 2) Opportunity - if your assailant is half a mile away with a knife he doesn't have opportunity. If he's 7 yards away he does. 3) Intent - the assailant must demonstrate intent which can be hard. A citizen with a CCW and who is packing has the means and opportunity to kill you if he's nearby but there's no intent. Intent is the deal breaker. Intent is most easily proven by the assailant actually attacking. That sucks for it means the attacker will usually have the advantage of initiative in any encounter with a law abiding citizen. Those 3 requirements are not an OR. They are an AND. All three must be present for one to use lethal force legally against another in OK [B]with some exceptions[/B] others may choose to elaborate on. So to answer the OP's question. If someone enters your business uninvited NO! you cannot shoot them unless they meet the criteria of 1 thru 3 above. And no you cannot shoot someone who enters your home uninvited either. They must enter your home ILLEGALLY ([I]there are circumstances where someone can be in your home uninvited but not illegally[/I]). If someone enters your home illegally the SDA says they are presumed to be there to cause you bodily harm and if you choose to kill 'em you have an affirmative defense against criminal and civil charges (look up affirmative defense - it is not the pass many believe though in OK it usually works out that way). [/QUOTE]
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