I had a run in with a CCW'er last night...

[purplehaze]

more likely budget constraints.
lane... traffic stop... i see what you did there.

Where did you possibly hear this?

That is completely backwards.

Cover officers SEEING things like what the OP described are exactly WHY two officers approach when possible.

Let's analyze your statement a little closer:

A police department will cut it's cover abilities by 50% on the off chance that there will be a mistake in communication for a tiny percentage of the population i.e. CCW holders who by definition are less likely to be contacted by the police in the first place?

No offense but I think you're completely out of your lane on this matter.

Michael Brown

 

[purplehaze]

Do you know if the ccw holder informed the contact officer that she had a gun? I know you likely didn't hear at the time but, later did he say whether the ccw holder informed him?

Though I thank you for your opinion and respect your right to have one I respectfully think your way off base here.

Could I have handled it better...No...I handled it just as I was trained to do and acted well within my departments force continum.

My perpose in posting the incident was to help educate other LEO's who frequent the boards, Educate CCW holders who frequent the boards and to generate an adult debate and discusion on what happend.

You say I am scared...and I would tell you that I would be stupid not to be. The diffrence is I rule the fear it doesn't rule me. Sir, I have been spit on with blood by an AIDS carrier, assaulted by fist and foot, had knives pulled on me and Shot at and engaged in a gunfight, I've served search warrants on crack houses, meth houses, I've had cemicals from a meth lab thrown on me by a tweeking meth cook, entered into burning buildings to wake sleeping residents, and I do it all for people like you....I define my fear and not let it define me. So sir I say to you that yes I am scared, every day that I put on this uniform, vest and badge I am scared. I'm scared for what the night will bring, Im scared that my wife may be woken up by a knock on a door with someone telling her I'm dead, I'm scared that I may have to burry one of my partners and or watch them die.

Sir, I am scared and not ashamed because it is that fear that keeps me alive to serve people like you.

 

[kinggabby]

Though I thank you for your opinion and respect your right to have one I respectfully think your way off base here.

Could I have handled it better...No...I handled it just as I was trained to do and acted well within my departments force continum.

My perpose in posting the incident was to help educate other LEO's who frequent the boards, Educate CCW holders who frequent the boards and to generate an adult debate and discusion on what happend.

You say I am scared...and I would tell you that I would be stupid not to be. The diffrence is I rule the fear it doesn't rule me. Sir, I have been spit on with blood by an AIDS carrier, assaulted by fist and foot, had knives pulled on me and Shot at and engaged in a gunfight, I've served search warrants on crack houses, meth houses, I've had cemicals from a meth lab thrown on me by a tweeking meth cook, entered into burning buildings to wake sleeping residents, and I do it all for people like you....I define my fear and not let it define me. So sir I say to you that yes I am scared, every day that I put on this uniform, vest and badge I am scared. I'm scared for what the night will bring, Im scared that my wife may be woken up by a knock on a door with someone telling her I'm dead, I'm scared that I may have to burry one of my partners and or watch them die.

Sir, I am scared and not ashamed because it is that fear that keeps me alive to serve people like you.

First of all I would like to thank you and other LEO who do decide to put on that badge and uniform just to take to the streets and try to do a job I know I could not do. All people have to do is read the paper and see personal attacks ( with weapons ) against LEO . Either beat up in a bar trying to break up a fight. Being shot in the face from a family trying to free someone arrested. Working a side job like security and being robbed and shot. Not to mention lunatics that drive the city streets and highways. So I have the utmost respect for you guys and gals. I know that there are some LEO that should not be LEO but I know more are hard working people trying to help keep people safe . And second I agree with how you handled the situation . It was not your fault that you did not know that the driver was a CCW. And as you stated how was you to know that she was not going for the gun to shoot . I mean I would not have known. I guess you need to work on those mind reading powers then you will be ready next time.

 

[spd67]

I wish I could read minds...it would make my job easy...

 

[OldCurlyWolf]

a good reason to keep the insurance on the visor, just so I don't forget and reach. Anyway, constructive post and a good reminder.

That is why I carry my DL, CHL and Insurance together on my person. I don't have to reach any where that might be questionable to an officer to get them and hand them to an officer. I also FAN the three so the officer KNOWS he is getting all three.

 

[spd67]

That is why I carry my DL, CHL and Insurance together on my person. I don't have to reach any where that might be questionable to an officer to get them and hand them to an officer. I also FAN the three so the officer KNOWS he is getting all three.

I think that is the best place to carry them as well....

 

[trade_sniper]

I wish I could read minds...it would make my job easy...

Me too, then I'd live in Vegas or on Wall Street.

 

[SPDguns]

it's all too often that i keep seeing posts and threads that discuss how horribly wrong the police are when dealing with ccw permit holders, how we are relegated and compared to thugs, nazi's, how were stupid and don't think and how we get the law wrong, how we don't use any common sense. Do you ever think that perhaps there are ccw's out there that don't think either and are part of the problem....

Well let me start by telling a story....last night i pull in right behind another officer who is initiating a traffic stop he goes to make contact with the driver and i provide cover by making a passenger side approach. We both make it to the car at the same time, the windows are down and there are two passengers in the vehicle, the driver and the front seat passenger, both are young women.

I hear my partner tell the driver that he had stopped her for her excessive speed and ask for her driver's license and insurance verification. I see the driver hand my partner what appears to be a driver's license and as soon as she hands him the id without pausing she leans over and opens the glove compartment and too my surprise i see a glock sitting in the glove box with her hand centimeters from it...

At that point my buttholle puckers a little, i draw my gun while issuing commands and yelling gun so my partner knows whats going on...i end up pointing my gun at the passenger and the driver while yelling attempting to control the situation....

Now as paul harvey used to say...the rest of the story....when my partner asked for her driver's license and insurance unbeknownst to me the driver handed him a driver's license and a ccw permit and without pausing she went to go get her insurance verification that she keeps in the glove box...right next to her glock.

I have no idea she just gave my partner the ccw permit and i don't know if she is getting ready to get her insurance or pull a gun and start shooting. The reality of police contact with citizens is that we do not know what you are going to do. You could be the sweetest, nicest, cutest thing on the planet and we still don't know if your just standing there with a smile on your face and murder in you heart or if your are what you appear to be.

Now let me say that this young lady did not break any laws but her absent mindedness almost got her shot...

It was legal for her to carry, it was legal for her to carry in her car, she made proper notification as required by law, and i applaud her for having her gun with her. I think every american that can legally do so should carry a gun everywhere they go. But... She could have slowed down and done better.

Advice to other ccw holders when you are on a traffic stop....

1. Keep your hands visible, turn on your dome light if you can before the officer gets to your vehicle.

2. At the first opportunity make notification to the officer that you are a ccw permit holder, provide him a copy of that permit and your identification.

3. Pause and wait for instructions or questions from the officer (like, do you have your gun with you know...where do you keep your gun ect....) by pausing and waiting you give the officer time to process what is going on and to more importantly let other officers present know what is going on so when the glove box opens and the cover officer sees a gun you don't get at .357 sig screwed into your ear.

4. I recommend that if you carry a gun in a vehicle that you never keep it with important papers like your insurance or registration. ( i highly recomend that you carry on your person and not in the glove box or center console...the gun is easily left behind or forgotten when you get out of the car and it just happens to magically appear when you go to get those papers when asked for them by le.)

5. If you do have the gun in the glove box with your insurance...get clarification from the officer that it's ok to get your insurance. Say something like, "officer, as i just told you i have a loaded gun in my glove box, that is where my insurance is in the vehicle do you want me to get the insurance verification now?" pause and wait for a response from the officer he or she will tell you what to do next. 99 percent of the time we will tell you to get the insurance.

6. After you have given the officer your paperwork sit calmly in the vehicle with your hands on the steering wheel and wait for your verbal warning, written warning, or citation.

As i said earlier that this girl did nothing wrong legally she did not exercise very good common sense.

Now let me tell you what happened....after my partner told me she had a ccw and i calmed down, said a few choice words, and cleaned the brown of of my backside i chose to use this as an opportunity for education on her part because i am a advocate for ccw i did not want this girl to be scared and not to ever carry again.

While my partner was calling in her information i began speaking to her at her drivers side window. I first apologized for frightening her and her passenger and i then told her why i had pulled a gun on them. She seemed to under stand my point of view. I then told her what to do in the future if she has contact with the police on a traffic shop and she has her gun with her. I then urged her to use this as a lesson and i then thanked her for exercising her constitutional rights and urged her to continue to do so...

Over the years i have seen ccw permit holders do some really stupid things and guess what guys...every time a police officer meets a stupid ccw holder acting stupidly they take that experience with them and you all get a bad rap.

If you act properly the police will act properly....nuf said.

good advice

 

[twoguns?]

Though I thank you for your opinion and respect your right to have one I respectfully think your way off base here.

Could I have handled it better...No...I handled it just as I was trained to do and acted well within my departments force continum.

My perpose in posting the incident was to help educate other LEO's who frequent the boards, Educate CCW holders who frequent the boards and to generate an adult debate and discusion on what happend.

You say I am scared...and I would tell you that I would be stupid not to be. The diffrence is I rule the fear it doesn't rule me. Sir, I have been spit on with blood by an AIDS carrier, assaulted by fist and foot, had knives pulled on me and Shot at and engaged in a gunfight, I've served search warrants on crack houses, meth houses, I've had cemicals from a meth lab thrown on me by a tweeking meth cook, entered into burning buildings to wake sleeping residents, and I do it all for people like you....I define my fear and not let it define me. So sir I say to you that yes I am scared, every day that I put on this uniform, vest and badge I am scared. I'm scared for what the night will bring, Im scared that my wife may be woken up by a knock on a door with someone telling her I'm dead, I'm scared that I may have to burry one of my partners and or watch them die.

Sir, I am scared and not ashamed because it is that fear that keeps me alive to serve people like you.

First I want to Thank You and all the LEO's for your Service.
Entering into a situation ...not knowing all the information..but going anyway.
I am not a LEO..nor am I a Gunfighter...but I think..Like one.
I always check.. my gun ..DL..CHL..and insurance..when I get into my vehicle..or any other.
My wife sometimes gives me a hard time about..being prepared for an encounter with LEO, carrying a gun..everywhere I can.
I hope and Pray she never has to find out ...why I do it..because I know why.
It IS a scary world out there ..sometimes.
Thank You for putting yourself in danger for those who dont know.

 

[HMFIC]

The only one acting like a douche here (other than the OP) is you. He overreacted. He could have handled the situation far better than he did. Maybe if he is so scared he should find new employment.

Sorry I dont agree with giving him a full pass on his major overreaction due to nothing. He could have handled this far better than drawing and waving his gun around.

In your estimation, what SHOULD he have done?