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Message: <blockquote data-quote="mitchshrader" data-source="post: 345931" data-attributes="member: 498">we aren't on the same page.. but it's the same book. <img src="/images/smilies/smile.png"  class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)" data-shortname=":)" /> my point is.. when dealing with novices you can't presume willing. YOU MAY presume willing.. as in, you DO that.. well.. i don't. there are folks who take the classes, who won't pull the trigger in a real incident. they may even THINK they're trained... i think that's a topic of a recent thread, hesitating in a real confrontation.. and we Are in the same book here, i don't want to seem to  argue when i have no disagreement with your position.but i notice a default presumption that willingness and committment exist. they don't always. how many instructors actually turn down students? How many OUGHT to turn down (some) students? nope. when you get to the point of presumption, it's just another vacuum cleaner sales pitch. no thanks, i ain't partaking of any today, might try my neighbor. i'm sure it's a very nice vacuum cleaner but your self interest is showing.. and it goes right along with CCW ain't a defense of the 2nd amendment. it's permission from strangers to do things that make sense to start with, and they make JUST as much sense to do em without the paperwork. An untrained citizen beats nothing, they MIGHT win. A Whole bunch of people bet worse odds daily, keeping the lights turned on in Vegas. If gun trainers would go listen to insurance salesmen sales pitches and delete all the stuff that sounded like that.. they'd be better off for it. IMO.edit/ps. I am really not trying to be a jerk. That's a danger signal that I'm closer than I wanna be to it. My apologies in that direction, it's consequential to disagreement and not my goal. I know almost nothing, and that's being generous, of the business of being a trainer. My opinions are specifically focused on novices, those of recent and untested interest, poorly budgeted and lacking foundation to build on. If somebody WANTS a trainer, researches and studies different styles and reputations, picks with their eyes open.. i've not a word to say to em, they already know more than I do. I may ask them questions to save steps, pick their brains if they'll stand for it.. but i'm not going to TEACH them anything. Now someone who may have a recent and questionable conversion from 'no-gun' to 'owns/wants/needs' a gun.. I may have opinions and insights that can be helpful. i might JUST teach them something and save them some steps. i'm not arguing with you just to piss you off.</blockquote>

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