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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Bobrob" data-source="post: 373720" data-attributes="member: 3729">MitchShrader wrote:there are folks who take the classes, who won't pull the trigger in a real incident. they may even THINK they're trained...i think that's a topic of a recent thread, hesitating in a real confrontation..and we Are in the same book here, i don't want to seem to argue when i have no disagreement with your position.but i notice a default presumption that willingness and committment exist. they don't always.how many instructors actually turn down students?How many OUGHT to turn down (some) students?nope. when you get to the point of presumption, it's just another vacuum cleaner sales pitch.no thanks, i ain't partaking of any today, might try my neighbor. i'm sure it's a very nice vacuum cleaner but your self interest is showing..and it goes right along with CCW ain't a defense of the 2nd amendment.it's permission from strangers to do things that make sense to start with, and they make JUST as much sense to do em without the paperwork.An untrained citizen beats nothing, they MIGHT win.A Whole bunch of people bet worse odds daily, keeping the lights turned on in Vegas.If gun trainers would go listen to insurance salesmen sales pitches and delete all the stuff that sounded like that.. they'd be better off for it. IMO.For anyone who "has seen the elephant" it's almost imposable to say what one is willing to do or not. I say it's more a result of chance than training.While I would prefer the benefit of first class training, I would more rather have a shotgun.</blockquote>

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