LEO asked me to remove my gun and leave it in car during traffic stop

[Michael Brown]

Just yesterday down by the State Capitol, I was pulled over for not completely stopping at a blinking red light. (I wont even try and argue because i actually dont remember it, I was talking with other occupants in the car about the helicopter and mediflights etc from the medical helicopter we had just passed). The trooper pulled in behind me with lights flashing. I pulled over , turned off car, rolled down window and put both hands on door so he could see them clearly. He ask for license and ins. I told him that i had my ccl license and that i was carrying... He asked me where is my DL and where is the firearm.. i explained that my dl and CCW permit were in my back left pocket and the weapon was on my right hip. He directed me to get my dl and CCW permit out only. I complied and always with a "Yes sir". At that time he told me to sit still and reached in the car window across my body to remove my weapon out of my holster and underneath my shirt. I asked him as he was tugging if i needed to slightly lean left to help him access it better.. he said no just sit still...so i did,,, he kept tugging and it wouldnt come out. He asked me if there was a thumbbreak or snap, I said no sir its an open top but its a tight fit.. .. after at least 30 seconds of tugging, he finally removed my G17 from the VM2. He then told me to step out of the car and go to the front seat of his car. Once i got in...he removed the magazine, racked the slide back and removed the round from the chamber ( i made sure to tell him that one was chambered when he removed magazine..) he then fiddled with it for just about 10 -15 seconds... he asked how long i have owned it, commenting that it looks like an older model,, i explained that yes, its a gen 2, but has never missed a beat. He commented that he didnt like a gun that doesnt have a hammer and that the 1911's spoiled him... he then called in to dispatch and ran the numbers on the gun. After that came back clear , he asked where i was going. After that brief conversation...he said that i did everything right and that sometimes people dont tell them right off the bat and they get a gun screwed into their ear... he then proceeded to write me a ticket,which im sure i deserve because i dont even remember which one of those street lights that were blinking...when we were all done in his front seat , he handed me my loaded magazine and one round... told me to put them in my pocket.. after i did he then handed me the g17 and told me not to load it until later,,, i thanked him and went on my way... , my only issue was the tugging to get the firearm out of my holster from across my body... i will of course always do what they say , but i sure was worried about his left hand reaching across my body and feeling around the handle of the loaded glock trying to figure out how to remove it.. he couldnt even see it . the shirt was covering it the entire time. I was having quick flashes of a hole being blown in my leg or as it he finally removed it, it going off towards the passenger..not to mention his own safety by reaching across a person he doesnt know and offering his entire arm.... i just didnt like the way that part was handled...but if that made him feel better,, then thats ok with me too...just made me very nervous....

While federal caselaw is clear about the officer being able to lawfully disarm someone during a traffic stop, I have extraordinary tactical concerns about doing something like this.

There are so many things that can go wrong when you reach inside someone's car.

And finally .....da,da,dum........I think we have finally found a violation of the SDA act by an LEO.

I would regard taking the gun AND running the serial number without some sort of additional probable cause as an "inspection" and there is nothing that grants an LEO this authority.

I run the serial number on guns fairly regularly but NOT in the case of taking a gun for the purposes of continuing a traffic stop for a TRAFFIC violaton. IF there is a title 21 violation, that is a different matter.

I've heard a lot of people flap their gums about being "illegally" disarmed and invariably I find that there is nothing unlawful about the officer's actions, but I believe this instance to be an exception UNLESS there is more to the story and the officer simply did not articulate the additional probable cause to the detainee.

However the "seizure" would be a 4th Amendment issue and really only subject to damages, which it appears that the detainee did not suffer.

Where this might be terribly relevent would be if the officer ND'd the gun while trying to remove it from the holster or while handling it and damaged property or injured the detainee or another passenger.

Michael Brown

 

[kcatto]

EXACT same thng happened to me on the tuner turnpike a year an a half ago. I was even stopped for the same reasons.

pesky blinking red lights......

 

[ExSniper]

And finally .....da,da,dum........I think we have finally found a violation of the SDA act by an LEO.

I would regard taking the gun AND running the serial number without some sort of additional probable cause as an "inspection" and there is nothing that grants an LEO this authority.

However the "seizure" would be a 4th Amendment issue and really only subject to damages, which it appears that the detainee did not suffer.

Where this might be terribly relevent would be if the officer ND'd the gun while trying to remove it from the holster or while handling it and damaged property or injured the detainee or another passenger.

Michael Brown

I cannot imagine what this officer was thinking. If the traffic stop had not been a "good guy" this officer would be dead. Shot, dragged down the street hanging out the window, all kinds of things come to mind. Very poor tactics on this stop.
How did he remove the firearm from your right hip and get it out of the window without pointing at you or one of your passengers? Pointing a firearm without lawful cause is a crime! In this case I am sure that he endangered you and/or your passengers.
Most officers do a good job and I will usually support if they make an error on the side of being too safe but this is not appropriate conduct. It was not safe for him and it was not safe for you.

 

[Burk Cornelius]

I don't know if it can even be done, but I bet the supervisor would like to know how this stop went down. I doubt that you could call and talk to him without it being perceived as a complaint (oh well) but they need to be able to learn from mistakes; and this one was defintely a mistake.

As someone pointed out, (I hadn't even thought about it) I'll bet he swept you, or a passenger with the muzzle at some point during this fiasco.

 

[Burk Cornelius]

...he said that i did everything right and that sometimes people dont tell them right off the bat and they get a gun screwed into their ear...

He told me that a lot of people did not inform properly and then get their nose out of joint when "they" (OHP officers I assume) discover it on their own and throw them on ground and stick a gun in their ear

Is that something they teach in Trooper school?

 

[kcatto]

Is that something they teach in Trooper school?

hahaha I guess if you cannot see the gun.... but listening to it must work better.....

 

[Burk Cornelius]

hahaha I guess if you cannot see the gun.... but listening to it must work better.....

Maybe maximus and BryanDP both use similar vernacular in their story and maybe the Troopers didn't say it exactly that way............... Just seemed funny that they both referred to sticking a gun in their ear.

 

[jtischauser]

Did you ask the tropper about his reasoning for having you remove the gun?

Did you get a ticket?

 

[Michael Brown]

Is that something they teach in Trooper school?

You can be confident that if a police officer finds a gun on your person without being informed of it first, you will probably wind up on the ground with a gun pointed at you.

Michael Brown

 

[ssgrock3]

had it happen this weekend, officer asked where the weapon was (console)..kids in my car, when he asked me to step out, he secured the weapon...I thought it was a good idea, I wouldn't have left them in the car with it. Officer was pleasant and just wanted to ensure I was sober as I touched a yellow line as I passed him coming towards me. Local perry officer. no ticket, delay was minimal.