Marines order Colt .45s

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SMS

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Actually, if what I've read is correct, this pistol is derived from a requirement that was written 13 years ago and previously shelved due to failures. Recent retirements and changes in the procurement arena allowed someone to shove their pet project through.

In other words, it's highly likely, being 13 years old, that very few people currently serving at the tip of the MARSOC spear had any say in this particular pistol being fielded. Rumor and speculation, sure, but relevant to the comments about "they picked it".
 

murphy j

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Actually, if what I've read is correct, this pistol is derived from a requirement that was written 13 years ago and previously shelved due to failures. Recent retirements and changes in the procurement arena allowed someone to shove their pet project through.

In other words, it's highly likely, being 13 years old, that very few people currently serving at the tip of the MARSOC spear had any say in this particular pistol being fielded. Rumor and speculation, sure, but relevant to the comments about "they picked it".

I believe you are correct in some of your assertions, but it still doesn't change the fact that end users actually had a say. Then and now as I understand it. Guys like these don't just get **** handed to them with the directive of 'use this'. It was tried back in the 80s and early 90s and you want to guessed what happened? They pulled 1911s out of mothballs and were rebuilt by the armorers at Quantico. It was tried with the SEALS too. Guess what happened? The MK23s mostly sat in the arms locker. Occasionally getting pulled out for use, but mostly sitting. The pistols that failed were Kimbers and they ended up being a stop gap measure to get a pistol in the field while the armorers caught up to demand. I'm pretty sure that within the first couple years of having these pistols they'll mostly be trashed, but that's not the pistols fault, rather it's the amount of use they'll see. Also, if these guys are anything like a certain Army unit, then I'm pretty sure there's some leeway as to carrying an alternate style pistol. I've seen Army SF carrying Beretta and Glock G19 and heard about some 1911s. The SEALS have the Sig226, Glock G17 and a select few(ST6) have the HK45c. There are viable alternatives and I'd be willing to bet that MARSOC has a few. In fact(wish I could find it) I'm pretty sure I've seen a photo of MARSOC guys with both 1911s and G17s on the range. I know the procurement system for all the service's is pretty screwed up at times, but when you get to this level you see a lot less of the ********. Is it possible this was some ********* officers pet project? Absolutely it's possible, but I'm dead certain the end users will not be force fed some piece of equipment they don't want or need. These are smart guys and if this isn't what they want or need, then they'll find a way to get rid of it and get what they do want/need. Either way, I'm tired of all these armchair commandos pontificating about what's best for various reasons. You are not there doing the deed and mixing it up with the stinkys. When you do, then you can have an opinion on types of equipment. I know what equipment I would have preferred, but was force fed less than stellar lowest bidder crap because I'm just a regular Light Infantry line dog. These guy don't have to deal with that.
 

SMS

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As always, it's the Indian not the arrow....so the MARSOC guys will kill 'em with a tan painted rock if that's what they are given.
 

Nraman

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I'm tired of all these armchair commandos pontificating about what's best for various reasons. You are not there doing the deed and mixing it up with the stinkys. When you do, then you can have an opinion on types of equipment.

True we are not there doing the deed, we are here on a firearms forum.....talking and exchanging opinions about....you guessed it, firearms.
If it bothers you that we have our own opinions, hey, we'll stop it. It is not like we affect the outcome, we are just talking. If it bothers you, no problem, we'll talk about cars. Can we talk about cars?
 

murphy j

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IMHO the 1911 is good for shooting at targets only, obsolete design.
Ooops, I forgot I am not supposed to have an opinion.

What's obsolete about it? It's as still viable as a fighting sidearm today as it was a 100yrs ago. Is it more maintenance intensive than some modern designs? Yes it is, but properly built I'd put it up against any modern day fighting pistol in accuracy and reliability.

True we are not there doing the deed, we are here on a firearms forum.....talking and exchanging opinions about....you guessed it, firearms.
If it bothers you that we have our own opinions, hey, we'll stop it.

What bothers me is all the people who think they know whats best for MARSOC Operators when they've never been there and done that. There was an exchange of they should've used this or used that with no experience in that arena to back it up.
As always, it's the Indian not the arrow....so the MARSOC guys will kill 'em with a tan painted rock if that's what they are given.
This is true and MARSOC chose the tan painted .45 caliber Colt arrow.
 

SMS

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One thing can be guaranteed out of this deal....Colt will sell more of these to 1911/Military fan-boys than they will to MARSOC.
 

ByrdC130

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One thing can be guaranteed out of this deal....Colt will sell more of these to 1911/Military fan-boys than they will to MARSOC.

That'd be great! I hope the majority of those sold are to new gun owners. I think it's a great thing when gun and ammo manufactures sell a lot of product. And the civie market buyer can freely choose which pistol they buy.
 

SMS

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Good for Colt for sure...wonder if it's enough to compensate for their dwindling portion of the military rifle sales?
 

twoguns?

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I believe you are correct in some of your assertions, but it still doesn't change the fact that end users actually had a say. Then and now as I understand it.
Guys like these don't just get **** handed to them with the directive of 'use this'. It was tried back in the 80s and early 90s and you want to guessed what happened? They pulled 1911s out of mothballs and were rebuilt by the armorers at Quantico.
It was tried with the SEALS too. Guess what happened? The MK23s mostly sat in the arms locker. Occasionally getting pulled out for use, but mostly sitting. The pistols that failed were Kimbers and they ended up being a stop gap measure to get a pistol in the field while the armorers caught up to demand.
I'm pretty sure that within the first couple years of having these pistols they'll mostly be trashed, but that's not the pistols fault, rather it's the amount of use they'll see.
Also, if these guys are anything like a certain Army unit, then I'm pretty sure there's some leeway as to carrying an alternate style pistol. I've seen Army SF carrying Beretta and Glock G19 and heard about some 1911s. The SEALS have the Sig226, Glock G17 and a select few(ST6) have the HK45c. There are viable alternatives and I'd be willing to bet that MARSOC has a few.
In fact(wish I could find it) I'm pretty sure I've seen a photo of MARSOC guys with both 1911s and G17s on the range. I know the procurement system for all the service's is pretty screwed up at times, but when you get to this level you see a lot less of the ********.
Is it possible this was some ********* officers pet project? Absolutely it's possible, but I'm dead certain the end users will not be force fed some piece of equipment they don't want or need.
These are smart guys and if this isn't what they want or need, then they'll find a way to get rid of it and get what they do want/need.
Either way, I'm tired of all these armchair commandos pontificating about what's best for various reasons. You are not there doing the deed and mixing it up with the stinkys.
When you do, then you can have an opinion on types of equipment. I know what equipment I would have preferred, but was force fed less than stellar lowest bidder crap because I'm just a regular Light Infantry line dog. These guy don't have to deal with that.
Thats better...and I always have an Opinion.
And other people have opinions, and Some actually have experience to share.
Sometimes I keep mine to myself... ;)
Lighten up Francis, and Welcome to OSA
 

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