Marines order Colt .45s

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JD8

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I believe you are correct in some of your assertions, but it still doesn't change the fact that end users actually had a say. Then and now as I understand it. Guys like these don't just get **** handed to them with the directive of 'use this'. It was tried back in the 80s and early 90s and you want to guessed what happened? They pulled 1911s out of mothballs and were rebuilt by the armorers at Quantico. It was tried with the SEALS too. Guess what happened? The MK23s mostly sat in the arms locker. Occasionally getting pulled out for use, but mostly sitting. The pistols that failed were Kimbers and they ended up being a stop gap measure to get a pistol in the field while the armorers caught up to demand. I'm pretty sure that within the first couple years of having these pistols they'll mostly be trashed, but that's not the pistols fault, rather it's the amount of use they'll see. Also, if these guys are anything like a certain Army unit, then I'm pretty sure there's some leeway as to carrying an alternate style pistol. I've seen Army SF carrying Beretta and Glock G19 and heard about some 1911s. The SEALS have the Sig226, Glock G17 and a select few(ST6) have the HK45c. There are viable alternatives and I'd be willing to bet that MARSOC has a few. In fact(wish I could find it) I'm pretty sure I've seen a photo of MARSOC guys with both 1911s and G17s on the range. I know the procurement system for all the service's is pretty screwed up at times, but when you get to this level you see a lot less of the ********. Is it possible this was some ********* officers pet project? Absolutely it's possible, but I'm dead certain the end users will not be force fed some piece of equipment they don't want or need. These are smart guys and if this isn't what they want or need, then they'll find a way to get rid of it and get what they do want/need. Either way, I'm tired of all these armchair commandos pontificating about what's best for various reasons. You are not there doing the deed and mixing it up with the stinkys. When you do, then you can have an opinion on types of equipment. I know what equipment I would have preferred, but was force fed less than stellar lowest bidder crap because I'm just a regular Light Infantry line dog. These guy don't have to deal with that.

Yep, pretty much sums it up.
 

Nraman

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What's obsolete about it? It's as still viable as a fighting sidearm today as it was a 100yrs ago. Is it more maintenance intensive than some modern designs? Yes it is, but properly built I'd put it up against any modern day fighting pistol in accuracy and reliability.

From reading, shooting and talking about 1911s for years, I have come to the conclusion that although it is the best for a fun day at the range, the original design, even heavily modified can not reach the reliability of a Beretta or Glock. It gets even more unreliable if non ball ammo is used. I think it was the best of the best at one time, times have changed, new designs came up. I love the 1911, always had one and used it as a defense gun till the newer designs showed up.
I'd love to see a side by side high round count test between the current Colt and a Glock or Beretta that would include some sand and mud tests..
 

HiredHand

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From reading, shooting and talking about 1911s for years, I have come to the conclusion that although it is the best for a fun day at the range, the original design, even heavily modified can not reach the reliability of a Beretta or Glock. It gets even more unreliable if non ball ammo is used. I think it was the best of the best at one time, times have changed, new designs came up. I love the 1911, always had one and used it as a defense gun till the newer designs showed up.
I'd love to see a side by side high round count test between the current Colt and a Glock or Beretta that would include some sand and mud tests..

It's a shame that you've come to this inaccurate conclusion.
 

MoBoost

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1911 is fine weapon ... for it's time.

Let's say MARSOC said - we want Garands in 30-06 for primary rifle. Wouldn't you say WTF? Garand is fine weapon, and 30-06 is fine round - it just doesn't hold a candle to m16/m4 in 5.56 as primary weapon. Neither does 1911 to any modern double-stack 9mm - two reasons: weight and caliber.
Ammo capacity/weight made a huge difference in modern warfare.
Don't forget in times of 45s and 06s - they issued bayonet for a reason.

You can pretend that it's not a "caliber war" - well it is: two BGs are approaching - would you rather have ONE 45ACP or TWO 9mm rounds? End of "war". It's cute to "split hairs" on external and terminal ballistics - but in the end "more ammo" ALWAYS wins.

Time of steel is gone ... even time of aluminum is at the end ... plastics are here to stay.
Yes it is cool to see 1911s in use, and yes it is cool to see chromed-out Garands and 1903s at parades. Don't confuse "cool" and "practical". If you don't get it - well, enjoy your ignorant bliss.

And, yes, if them Bad-Aces had to use "painted rock" to dispatch the baddies - I imagine they would be very proficient at it. As far as them "wanting 1911s" for some logical reason - as a logical person I don't see it: obsolete design, obsolete caliber, minimal ammo capacity. Using "it works" as the main factor - we are back at the "painted rock" - I assure you it works too.
 
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MoBoost

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Maybe with 1911 crowd you have to deal with "67 Mustang Syndrome" - when you say 67 Mustang - you automatically imagine $100,000 fully restored fastback, not rusted down coupe that they made 6 times as many.

Same thing with 1911 - first thing people imagine is a $5000 custom fitted gun in 1911 pattern - not schit and ship stuff over the counter.


Apparently 4000 guns went through: http://militarytimes.com/blogs/gearscout/2012/07/19/m45-marsoc-pistol-contract-is-done-deal/

Apparently a few frames cracked during testing: http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=72301&page=10
 

JD8

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Maybe with 1911 crowd you have to deal with "67 Mustang Syndrome" - when you say 67 Mustang - you automatically imagine $100,000 fully restored fastback, not rusted down coupe that they made 6 times as many.

Same thing with 1911 - first thing people imagine is a $5000 custom fitted gun in 1911 pattern - not schit and ship stuff over the counter.


Apparently 4000 guns went through: http://militarytimes.com/blogs/gearscout/2012/07/19/m45-marsoc-pistol-contract-is-done-deal/

Apparently a few frames cracked during testing: http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=72301&page=10

I know right?

Who would be stupid enough to take something old, outdated and unreliable and fix it up??!

[Broken External Image]
 

MoBoost

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I know right?
Who would be stupid enough to take something old, outdated and unreliable and fix it up??!

Who? Somebody who wants to prove a point that you don't have to be like everyone else.

But, when a customer walks through the door at says - "I want 8 second / 1000whp car" - 4 cylinder from the early 90s is NOT the first thing that crosses my mind.

I can make anything fast - some people want "this" fast and money is no object, and there is always "return on your money" mentality.

They got to spend $2k a pistol - I wouldn't spend it on 3lb "clunker" that holds 7 rounds.

I guess that just helps the point I'm making. Are you on my side now?
 

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