Most Versatile 12 gauge round?

[Mike_60]

Really good points, Mike60, which should be thought about by folks who find themselves in a bug out situation. I thought about emergency fishing gear a while back and finally just shrugged and got a couple of gill nets and, as you mentioned, a selection of snares. (Squirrels are damn tasty in a stew!)....The weight is certainly an issue.......

Thanks Walrus for the kind words. While a bug out situation is probably one of the least likely things to have to deal with, it is by its very nature one of the most catastrophic. When I started looking seriously at this a number of years ago I determined that even though it's only a remote possibility, the cost of failure was simply to high. So, given the conclusion that I had come up with. I decided to see if there was anything I could do to increase the odds in my favor. One of the things I quickly decided on was to get back into an old hobby of mine from many years ago - hiking. But given the fact that I'm now in my fifties....and...um...generously proportioned....I needed to be a little more careful and not go nuts and kill myself. But on the plus side of this research, it did give me plenty of justification to buy lots of stuff to play with it and try out. I've always been sort of a gear whore anyway.

When I finally started really using my stuff I found out quickly that to take everything along with me that I wanted I was going to need two mules to carry it all. Weight becomes an issue the first time you slip that pack on your back until you take it off. That is why I have the opinion I do about shotguns. They are great for sport and homes and even base camps, but that is all - unless you have a mule.

 

[Mike_60]

...Said it was not worth eating, and when they thashed about before expiring, it made the meat all bloody...

Use locking snares it'll choke them down right fast.

 

[right1911]

I like to have more #6 field loads on hand than anything else. More range than 7 1/2 or #8. A little too large for quail, a little too small for turkey. Perfect compromise. The Old Timers argument for the cut shell used as a slug is perfectly valid. I've never tried it myself, but my hillbillie cousins assure me that it works.
As for the guy in this thread who advises 7 1/2 for self defense, Dick Cheney couldn't even kill a lawyer with that.
00 buck for the house gun, #6 for everything else.
This is assuming that you also have a rifle.

7 1/2 is plenty powerful for self defense at short range. And like someone said you can make cutshells out of bird shot that will drop a deer. Not that thats legal but I seen people do this.

 

[Cinaet]

If you're on a budget.... Quail, rabbits, squirrel #7 2 3/4 low brass. Turkey, pheasant #6 2 3/4 low brass. Human 00 buck. Deer 00 buck and slug.

 

[ignerntbend]

7 1/2 is plenty powerful for self defense at short range. And like someone said you can make cutshells out of bird shot that will drop a deer. Not that thats legal but I seen people do this.

If you have time to cut the shell while the BG is poking around in your house, then you have a powerful argument. If the bad guy is three feet away, birdshot will blow a mighty big hole in him.

Most of us dont want to get that close. Buck shot for self defense.

Edit: Still, as I've said before, if all I have in a SD situation is #8, somebody's gonna get his hair mussed.

 

[SMS]

Penetration is key. Birdshot doesn't penetrate deep enough to reliably stop a human...unless it's at ridiculously close range, like ingnernt mentioned.

At anything beyond bad breath range, the best you can hope for is a large surface wound. Sure, you can hope that the massive surface wound created might give an attacker something else to think about, but Hope is not a preferred course of action when it comes to self defense planning.

 

[JamesP82]

Penetration is key. Birdshot doesn't penetrate deep enough to reliably stop a human...unless it's at ridiculously close range, like ingnernt mentioned.

At anything beyond bad breath range, the best you can hope for is a large surface wound. Sure, you can hope that the massive surface wound created might give an attacker something else to think about, but Hope is not a preferred course of action when it comes to self defense planning.

The 65 pound gelatin block rose up to about a 45-degree angle immediately after firing.

==========
Brass Fetcher Ballistic Testing

Test # Bird 1
Bare gelatin block
(Nominal 10% concentration)

Cartridge : 12 gauge Winchester Super Speed Xtra 7 1/2 shot, 2 3/4 inches, 1 ounce

Block Calibration : 3.3 ± 0.05 inch penetration @ 597 ± 0.5 ft/sec

Block Calibration temperature : 36.1 ± 0.05 Degrees Fahrenheit

Block Core temperature : 37.9 ± 0.05 Degrees Fahrenheit

Bullet Performance:

Impact Velocity : 1317 ± 0.5 feet/second
Deepest Penetration Depth : 5.9 ± 0.05 Inch
Maximum Crack Diameter : 4.5 ± 0.05 Inch
Max Crack Diameter Location : 2.3 ± 0.05 Inch
Cavitation Depth : 0.0-5.9 ± 0.05 Inch

Notes:
Weapon - New England Firearms Pardner, with 24.0" barrel and cylinder choke.

Distance - 10.0 feet, muzzle to gelatin impact face

Test site conditions - 67 deg F, 46% relative humidity

Time out of refrigeration prior to shot impact - 6 minutes

Bullet recovered weight - All shot pellets and wadding recovered

Bullet recovered average diameter - 0.090 ± 0.0005"

Bullet recovered length - Not applicable.

Shot pattern was 3.8" in diameter on the impact face of the gelatin block.

http://www.brassfetcher.com/Shotguns/Bird 1 Side View.JPG
http://www.brassfetcher.com/Shotguns/Bird 1 Top View.JPG
http://www.brassfetcher.com/Shotguns/Bird 1 Bullet View.JPG

So a 3.8" hole with 5"-6" maximun penetration is a surface wounds? Assuming of course that 10 feet is "bad breath range". This would create a huge amount of trauma which would likely result in the rapid onset of shock. While this would not instantly kill a grown man it would stop him in his tracks. Hit them in the chest and they will have all sorts of trouble breathing and will likley drop. If not, good follow up shot to the skull would end it. Pellets or not, you are talking about an ounce of lead at 1300fps.

One of the reason I am fond of this as a home self defense load is because it won't penatrate a wall. I don't want a stray round going where I can't see.

 

[ignerntbend]

The 65 pound gelatin block rose up to about a 45-degree angle immediately after firing.

==========
Brass Fetcher Ballistic Testing

Test # Bird 1
Bare gelatin block
(Nominal 10% concentration)

Cartridge : 12 gauge Winchester Super Speed Xtra 7 1/2 shot, 2 3/4 inches, 1 ounce

Block Calibration : 3.3 ± 0.05 inch penetration @ 597 ± 0.5 ft/sec

Block Calibration temperature : 36.1 ± 0.05 Degrees Fahrenheit

Block Core temperature : 37.9 ± 0.05 Degrees Fahrenheit

Bullet Performance:

Impact Velocity : 1317 ± 0.5 feet/second
Deepest Penetration Depth : 5.9 ± 0.05 Inch
Maximum Crack Diameter : 4.5 ± 0.05 Inch
Max Crack Diameter Location : 2.3 ± 0.05 Inch
Cavitation Depth : 0.0-5.9 ± 0.05 Inch

Notes:
Weapon - New England Firearms Pardner, with 24.0" barrel and cylinder choke.

Distance - 10.0 feet, muzzle to gelatin impact face

Test site conditions - 67 deg F, 46% relative humidity

Time out of refrigeration prior to shot impact - 6 minutes

Bullet recovered weight - All shot pellets and wadding recovered

Bullet recovered average diameter - 0.090 ± 0.0005"

Bullet recovered length - Not applicable.

Shot pattern was 3.8" in diameter on the impact face of the gelatin block.

http://www.brassfetcher.com/Shotguns/Bird 1 Side View.JPG
http://www.brassfetcher.com/Shotguns/Bird 1 Top View.JPG
http://www.brassfetcher.com/Shotguns/Bird 1 Bullet View.JPG

So a 3.8" hole with 5"-6" maximun penetration is a surface wounds? Assuming of course that 10 feet is "bad breath range". This would create a huge amount of trauma which would likely result in the rapid onset of shock. While this would not instantly kill a grown man it would stop him in his tracks. Hit them in the chest and they will have all sorts of trouble breathing and will likley drop. If not, good follow up shot to the skull would end it. Pellets or not, you are talking about an ounce of lead at 1300fps.

One of the reason I am fond of this as a home self defense load is because it won't penatrate a wall. I don't want a stray round going where I can't see.

Dayum! We give up. Our argument is refuted.

 

[gillman7]

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot3.htm

 

[dennishoddy]

Daym! Our argument is refuted. We give up.

Not quite. Ballistic gel is actually a poor way to test anything. It does not simulate anything in the human body.

Its designed to show great mushroomed rounds by the manufacturers.

Put some layers of denim, and stuff some rib bones, zippers, cell phones in pockets, etc in the mix, and the true performance of a bullet/shot will be seen.

I've done two extensive reports of bird shot rounds from pistols (judge) vs a true shotgun on this forum.

The results of anything smaller than OO have been dismal at best.