Most Versatile 12 gauge round?

[ignerntbend]

But seriously folks, lets take a real world example here. Dick Cheney shot a lawyer with seven and a half and guess what that lawyer did?
He lived to tell about it, that's what. You would think that a shotgun blast to a man's face head and neck would injure him egregiously [if that's how you spell that]
...but no, that lawyer is still among the living.
If Lawyers were composed of balistic gelitin and you could shoot them under very specifficaly defined conditions of time and temperature, then we probably wouldn't even be talking about this.

Real Lawers are more resilient than folks imagine.

Buckshot for self defense

 

[JamesP82]

I say we dress up a feral hog and do some testing.

 

[dennishoddy]

But seriously folks, lets take a real world example here. Dick Cheney shot a lawyer with seven and a half and guess what that lawyer did?
He lived to tell about it, that's what. You would think that a shotgun blast to a man's face head and neck would injure him egregiously [if that's how you spell that]
...but no, that lawyer is still among the living.
If Lawyers were composed of balistic gelitin and you could shoot them under very specifficaly defined conditions of time and temperature, then we probably wouldn't even be talking about this.

Real Lawers are more resilient than folks imagine.

Buckshot for self defence

Part of my test was to shoot into safety glasses that we all wear on the job that cost the company $2 in case somebody came down the hallway with them on.


Using the Tarus Judge, or a full length shotgun, none of the #6 or 7 1/2 shot penetrated the glasses. We use them as a training example at our local gun club, and the youth shooting program.

I'm too freeking lazy this late at night to search for the threads.

 

[SMS]

James, the data you posted just proves the point.

Less than 6" of penetration, in gel, is nowhere near close to the recommended minimum penetration for self defense (12" to 18")....Like Dennis said, slap some denim or leather on that block to simulate clothing and the penetration goes even more shallow.

Bird shot kills birds....sometimes. Why anyone would intentionally choose to use it to protect ones life by taking another is beyond reason.

 

[Old Timer]

The 65 pound gelatin block rose up to about a 45-degree angle immediately after firing.

==========
Brass Fetcher Ballistic Testing

Test # Bird 1
Bare gelatin block
(Nominal 10% concentration)

Cartridge : 12 gauge Winchester Super Speed Xtra 7 1/2 shot, 2 3/4 inches, 1 ounce

Block Calibration : 3.3 ± 0.05 inch penetration @ 597 ± 0.5 ft/sec

Block Calibration temperature : 36.1 ± 0.05 Degrees Fahrenheit

Block Core temperature : 37.9 ± 0.05 Degrees Fahrenheit

Bullet Performance:

Impact Velocity : 1317 ± 0.5 feet/second
Deepest Penetration Depth : 5.9 ± 0.05 Inch
Maximum Crack Diameter : 4.5 ± 0.05 Inch
Max Crack Diameter Location : 2.3 ± 0.05 Inch
Cavitation Depth : 0.0-5.9 ± 0.05 Inch

Notes:
Weapon - New England Firearms Pardner, with 24.0" barrel and cylinder choke.

Distance - 10.0 feet, muzzle to gelatin impact face

Test site conditions - 67 deg F, 46% relative humidity

Time out of refrigeration prior to shot impact - 6 minutes

Bullet recovered weight - All shot pellets and wadding recovered

Bullet recovered average diameter - 0.090 ± 0.0005"

Bullet recovered length - Not applicable.

Shot pattern was 3.8" in diameter on the impact face of the gelatin block.

http://www.brassfetcher.com/Shotguns/Bird 1 Side View.JPG
http://www.brassfetcher.com/Shotguns/Bird 1 Top View.JPG
http://www.brassfetcher.com/Shotguns/Bird 1 Bullet View.JPG

So a 3.8" hole with 5"-6" maximun penetration is a surface wounds? Assuming of course that 10 feet is "bad breath range". This would create a huge amount of trauma which would likely result in the rapid onset of shock. While this would not instantly kill a grown man it would stop him in his tracks. Hit them in the chest and they will have all sorts of trouble breathing and will likley drop. If not, good follow up shot to the skull would end it. Pellets or not, you are talking about an ounce of lead at 1300fps.

One of the reason I am fond of this as a home self defense load is because it won't penatrate a wall. I don't want a stray round going where I can't see.

I would like to see a poor mans slug (cut shell) test into a gelatin block.
It seems to act like a no bounce hammer, and transfers all of it's energy all at once.

 

[daniel1daniel2]

I would like to see a poor mans slug (cut shell) test into a gelatin block.

Seconded, I have heard that they kill a deer nicely because they turn inside out once they hit. again I HEARD that, no first hand experience

 

[jstndrfr]

In 00 Buck, I prefer the Federal FLite Control, it really stays together out to 30 yards.

 

[tharper]

In 00 Buck, I prefer the Federal FLite Control, it really stays together out to 30 yards.

It's good stuff. 15 yards it patterns super tight.

 

[Johnjosiah]

Having seen the results of bird shot to the head and face at <20 yds, I would not recommend being in front of it. Most home defense would be at this range or less. Generally speaking most people do not like to be shot at with anything and most people are conditioned to be even more scared of staring down the barrel of a shotgun. Thus, I tend to buy shells with hunting in mind first and home protection second. Dove, quail other small birds or game 7-8, Turkey/Duck 2-6 (smaller if lead). Geese TT-BB. Large game and or increased distance buck shot and slugs...like others I would be using a rifle or pistol.

Side Note: A pellet or blow gun works great for rabbits and squirrel and with much less noise.

 

[Kyle78]

I use my Saiga 12 for Hunting, Home Defence and plinking.
I reload Buckshot and Slugs for my stockpile. I can reload slugs for around .20 cents, and buckshot for the same.

I prefer shotguns to rifles because of the wide range of ammo.

buckshot for Home Defence.
Rifled Slugs for Hunting. I've killed 300lb pigs at over 100 yards with rifled slugs.
Sabot Slugs do great, espically if you have a rifled barrel .
Cheap Bulk pack for plinking/bird hunting.

If you get into reloading, which is super easy, it really opens up your options on ammo.
Hulls are super cheap, if you pick them up at the range.

During the panic ammo buys, I've noticed shotgun ammo is plentiful. People are buying the 12dollar bulk packs of slugs/buckshot, but the single boxes of slugs/buckshot that sales for $4 bucks is stocked high.