Nov 21st, Carrygun Match @ Heartland, Snubby State Championship, New Rules, etc

[David E]

November Match is also the Oklahoma State Snubby Match!

When: 3rd Sunday Night of each month.
Signup: Starts 5:30

Match Type: Handgun only. IPSC rules with TIME PLUS scoring.
Stages: Four (typically)
Round Count: 50 – 72 rds required.

Equipment: Practical guns .380 or larger, carried in practical gear. Holster (required) must cover triggerguard. Two spare magazines or 2 speedloaders will get you thru any stage. No shoulder holsters or cross-draw rigs. No Competition Only guns or gear.

Rules: Basically, IPSC rules with TIME PLUS scoring.

Divisions:

Low Cap = 10 rd mags or less. (you may load magazines down for this division)
High Cap: = 11 rd mags or more (load 'em up!)
Revolver: = any revolver, barrel length 2.26" or longer, any capacity.
PDLL = Ported (like the Glock "C" models) Dot (like the Optima red dot) Lasers and gun-mounted Lights. If your 5-shot J-frame has a laser, it'll compete in this division.
SubCompact: Semi-autos with barrels 3.5" or shorter.
Snubby: 5-6 shot with 2.25" or shorter barrels.

Prizes: YES! $50 Heartland Outdoor Gift certificates!
Awarded randomly! Must be present to win.

Limited to first 30 shooters!

Cost: $20

(active military and full-time Law Enforcement ½ price)

 

[David E]

Carrygun Match Guidelines

Safety

1) Safety is everyone’s job. If you see something unsafe, SAY SOMETHING !
2) This is a COLD RANGE. No guns are loaded prior to the “make ready” command.
3) Do not unholster your gun unless on the line & after told to “make ready” by the RO. (Range Officer) IE; your gun stays holstered unless you’re on the line making ready or in the safe area.
4) Follow all range commands of the RO, as they are given. (Don’t rush, don’t anticipate!)
5) The “safe” area is the classroom, at the southeast corner of the building thru the double doors.
You may “gun-up” there, while facing the EAST wall. (away from the double doors)
6) Do NOT handle any ammunition in the safe area. (Load magazines anywhere BUT the safe area)
7) All movement and reloads must be done with the trigger finger outside the guard.
8) Don’t break the 180 with the muzzle. (Muzzle & Finger warnings may be given, but are not required)
9) If you have an accidental discharge, STOP! Face downrange and do what the RO tells you.
10) Do not try to outsmart the stage. Due to the limitations of an indoor range, all shots must hit the backstop for safety. Walls, ceiling and floor are not the backstop!
11) It is required that the shooter engage targets only from the specified positions.
12) All prop walls are considered to go all the way to the floor. Unless otherwise specifically outlined for the stage, if you can see a target under a wall, do not shoot it. If you’re unsure, ask!
13) All walls and targets are considered impenetrable. Do not intentionally shoot thru a target, prop or wall hoping to hit another target.
14) When told, “unload & show clear,” remove your magazine, remove the chambered round,
point the gun at the backstop and pull the trigger. If there is an AD, it’s a Match DQ

DISREGARDING ANY OF THE ABOVE GUIDELINES WILL RESULT IN A MATCH DQ

If you are DQ’ed for a safety violation, there is no refund and there is no whining.


Protocols

1) You are expected to stay with your squad throughout the match.
2) You are expected to help tape, pick up brass and/or reset the stage for the next shooter.
3) If you are the “on deck” (next) shooter, you do not need to help reset the stage.
4) If you’re “in the hole” (3rd up) pick up the shooter’s brass. If you’re 4th or 5th or greater, help tape/reset.
5) If you are reported as a “slug” (not helping at all) then you forfeit your chance at the drawing.
6) There is no shooting straight thru the match, unless you have a great reason.
7) After the match is over, you are expected to help sweep, take down the props, clean up and restore the range to how it was before the match.
8) If you leave early, you forfeit your chance at winning a $50 Heartland Gift Certificate.

Must be present to win!

 

[David E]

There will be a special drawing for the $50 gift certificate if you shoot the match WITH A SNUBBY! (this is not required, it is only an incentive to shoot a snubby. We'll use "DRT" scoring (Dead Right There) for the 5-shot snubbies.

So, if you shoot with a snubby THE ENTIRE MATCH, you will actually have at least TWO chances to win a certificate, presuming there are enough shooters for two certificates. If there are enough shooters, we could have 3-4 certificates!

 

[David E]

Ok, we're going to dispense with the IDPA scoring. We're just going to keep it simple!

We're going to start using "3-5-7" scoring. (pronounced, Three fifty seven)

Any shot inside the main scoring area results in zero seconds added to the time.

Any shot outside the main scoring area, but still touching the target will add THREE seconds to the total time.

Any shot totally outside any scoring area adds FIVE seconds to the time.

Any shot that hits a No-Shoot adds...........wait for it..............SEVEN seconds to the total time.

Procedurals will be THREE seconds.

A new penalty, the "WTH" adds TWENTY seconds. If the RO has to ask, "What the hell were you thinking?" you'll get this penalty.

That's it. No "Failures to neutralize," etc, etc.
Any shot that misses the

 

[jtischauser]

Wait a second! So there is no -1 in the scoring??? What targets do you plan to use?

 

[David E]

Correct, no more "down 1" or "points down" scoring. That was really taking the long way around the barn, anyway. (count up the points down, divide them by 1/2 then add them to the stage time along with any FTN penalties.)

I am leaving my options open on the target(s) but I have found some that I think are pretty cool and in keeping with the premise of this match being a realistic, practical one.

I was going to post a link to an example target, but the site won't come up for me. Maybe it will for you. www.letargets.com Look for "scoring" paper targets, then the TQ-21 style.

But to alleviate possible concerns, the "main scoring area" would be similar to the "C" zone or better of an IPSC or IDPA target. Any hit inside the "C" zone or better would add zero time to the stage run. As you can see, it's a fairly generous scoring area, which is why the off center hits cost so much in a time penalty.

I realize that there is no added benefit when you perfectly center-punch a target, but this reflects my personal philosophy that a good hit NOW beats the hell out of a perfect hit 1 second later.

 

[imhntn]

That looks like a good target with simple scoring. Accuracy is rewarded. Sounds good to me.

 

[David E]

We will see some of these targets:

http://www.letargets.com/estylez_ps.aspx?searchmode=category&searchcatcontext=~010000~010400~010405

 

[jtischauser]

I agree with the logic behind your scoring system and targets but I don't think we need to confuse all of the new shooters at this match with another one off scoring system adn weird targets.

With the old way of doing it IDPA style the scoring system translated over to another popular sport. If you are concerned about time it doesn't get much faster than IDPA although your new system WILL be faster because there will be next to no penalties for most shooters.

I say leave it as it was and just use IDPA or USPSA targets.

 

[David E]

I don't think we need to confuse all of the new shooters at this match with another one off scoring system and weird targets.

New shooters have no idea what IDPA scoring rules are. The "357" scoring is simple to understand after about 30 seconds of explanation. The targets aren't "weird," they are people targets. The match is about shooting with your actual carry gear. Engaging targets that look like people makes sense in this context. (and not all of them will be shoot targets)

With the old way of doing it IDPA style the scoring system translated over to another popular sport.

Yes, it's a popular sport. The problem is, it doesn't seem to be that popular around the OKC area. I don't know why. There have been at least two attempts that I'm aware of to run IDPA matches in the metro area. Currently, there are NONE. The closest one is Hinton.

Looking around, the only two shooters in the OKC area that shot any IDPA match is me and Ol Yeller, including the Nationals in Tulsa.

As a result, hardly anyone knows the IDPA scoring rules, except for what they've learned while RO'ing at the Heartland matches. Even then, I've seen inconsistency because the rules weren't known and therefore, were not properly applied. I've been asked to get more IDPA targets because the points down are printed on the target, making it easier to remember how many points down to assess for each scoring zone.

If you are concerned about time it doesn't get much faster than IDPA although your new system WILL be faster because there will be next to no penalties for most shooters.

I'm not concerned with how fast the matches run, as they seem to be hitting their stride.

With the "357" scoring, SOME shooters may have more penalties than expected, since they may think that they don't have to aim.........