Official OSA COVID-19/Corona Virus Thread

[Dale00]

Responding to above questions:
Who to trust in the medical mainstream? I don't think the medical mainstream is as fragmented as our favorite sources of information may indicate. One you can likely trust is your physician. I'd bet that they read authoritative sources of research regularly. Don't go to them and ask about your pre-formed ideas from your information sources, however. You are paying them for their expertise. Let them share what they know without setting up an argument or they will likely acquiesce rather than argue fruitlessly and waste time.
One study or expose is exactly what a journ-o-list wants to write a gripping piece. They are not after the truth, just your attention. The news is always confused...you doctor reads broadly and is not. You might also consider online sources like Mayo Clinic and other respected medical names.

Why are countries and cities with the most stringent lockdowns and mask requirements experiencing the worst spikes? If they are, there may be confounding factors...perhaps the stringent measures are in response to past spikes that are owning to high levels of closeness between people (e.g. subway, elevators, bars....). Perhaps the data is being cherry-picked by journ-o-lists to make a gripping read.

Part of the problem is us. We want to figure it out and fix it. But we are blind to our own shortcomings in terms of lack of understanding of the scientific and health care subject matter areas needed to be able to take all available studies in, process them and form a good opinion. There are disagreements within science and one study does not change everything. A study needs to be assessed in terms of experimental design (does it adequately control for confounding factors?), statistical validity and how it fits with other studies in the general area. Please do not try to obtain an understanding of science by googling - with rare exceptions the path to becoming equipped to understand science well is to go to graduate school and design and conduct experiments yourself and learn all preexisting research findings in an area (Epidemiology, Virology in this case). None of us in OSA have this skill set. Our doctors do not have this skill set but they read researchers who do.

 

[ignerntbend]

Why is it that the countries/city’s that have the most stringent lockdowns and mask requirements seem to be experiencing the worst spikes?

The state with the most cases per capita is North Dakota. They’re not the masking kind.

 

[Okie4570]

Who to trust in the medical mainstream? I don't think the medical mainstream is as fragmented as our favorite sources of information may indicate. One you can likely trust is your physician. I'd bet that they read authoritative sources of research regularly. Don't go to them and ask about your pre-formed ideas from your information sources, however. You are paying them for their expertise. Let them share what they know without setting up an argument or they will likely acquiesce rather than argue fruitlessly and waste time.
One study or expose is exactly what a journ-o-list wants to write a gripping piece. They are not after the truth, just your attention. The news is always confused...you doctor reads broadly and is not. You might also consider online sources like Mayo Clinic and other respected medical names.

Why are countries and cities with the most stringent lockdowns and mask requirements experiencing the worst spikes? If they are, there may be confounding factors...perhaps the stringent measures are in response to past spikes that are owning to high levels of closeness between people (e.g. subway, elevators, bars....). Perhaps the data is being cherry-picked by journ-o-lists to make a gripping read.

Part of the problem is us. We want to figure it out and fix it. But we are blind to our own shortcomings in terms of lack of understanding of the scientific and health care subject matter areas needed to be able to take all available studies in, process them and form a good opinion. There are disagreements within science and one study does not change everything. A study needs to be assessed in terms of experimental design (does it adequately control for confounding factors?), statistical validity and how it fits with other studies in the general area. Please do not try to obtain an understanding of science by googling - with rare exceptions the path to becoming equipped to understand science well is to go to graduate school and design and conduct experiments yourself and learn all preexisting research findings in an area (Epidemiology, Virology in this case). None of us in OSA have this skill set. Our doctors do not have this skill set but they read researchers who do.

Please don't include myself or several others here on OSA in your group of "non skill set" people.


"But we are blind to our own shortcomings in terms of lack of understanding of the scientific and health care subject matter areas needed to be able to take all available studies in, process them and form a good opinion."

Please feel free to speak for yourself anytime you wish. Very little of my opinions and beliefs about covid come from the "entertainment/media" industry, but from friends who are pulmonologists, respiratory specialists, ICU nurses, a hospital director and some clinical pharmacists. While covid is real and yes people are dying with it, we're being politically and financially played, end of story.

 

[Dale00]

Please don't include myself or several others here on OSA in your group of "non skill set" people.


"But we are blind to our own shortcomings in terms of lack of understanding of the scientific and health care subject matter areas needed to be able to take all available studies in, process them and form a good opinion."

Please feel free to speak for yourself anytime you wish. Very little of my opinions and beliefs about covid come from the "entertainment/media" industry, but from friends who are pulmonologists, respiratory specialists, ICU nurses, a hospital director and some clinical pharmacists. While covid is real and yes people are dying with it, we're being politically and financially played, end of story.

The truth will out. Time will tell. Meanwhile it is best to argue points rather than take things personally and respond personally. It simply obscures the situation.

 

[Okie4570]

The truth will out. Time will tell. Meanwhile it is best to argue points rather than take things personally and respond personally. It simply obscures the situation.

Nothing was taken personally, just responding factually.

 

[cktad]

In my opinion you have to be your own health advocate. A doctor sees hundreds of patients and you are just one of many. The personal one on one, long term family doctor of the past is pretty much gone. Doing research on your medications and your illness is a good idea to educate yourself. There are many reliable resources out there. Doctors do the best they can under the circumstance but your health is your responsibility. And if a doctor gives you good reliable medical advice, follow it.

 

[Dale00]

Good, thanks Okie4570
Which parts are real and which are false? A tough question to answer but important I think. I do believe politics have significant influence especially in the blue states but the epidemic needs to be taken seriously. Elsewhere I've posted a physician's analysis showing that it is about 3 times as deadly as flu if you are infected....hopefully vaccines or therapeutants will lower this soon.....or wider use of Vit D as one responder posted.

Two often-expressed thoughts that are very counter-productive: "The entire thing is a fraud" and "Mask wearers are idiots or worse"

cktad - Yes doctors are busy but they are also plagued by patients self-educating using dubious sources. I'd suggest a second doctor's opinion rather than the internet.

 

[THAT Gurl]

Please don't include myself or several others here on OSA in your group of "non skill set" people.


"But we are blind to our own shortcomings in terms of lack of understanding of the scientific and health care subject matter areas needed to be able to take all available studies in, process them and form a good opinion."

Please feel free to speak for yourself anytime you wish. Very little of my opinions and beliefs about covid come from the "entertainment/media" industry, but from friends who are pulmonologists, respiratory specialists, ICU nurses, a hospital director and some clinical pharmacists. While covid is real and yes people are dying with it, we're being politically and financially played, end of story.

This where I come from also. I have friends who work in different capacities in three different hospitals in the Metro area. My doctor and I have discussed this at length, given my husband's immunocompromised state. They ALL say the same thing -- it is a problem. And for some it is definitely life-changing (or deadly) -- just like countless other conditions we deal with daily -- but we are being played politically and it is destroying the economy.

My doctor is adamant that keeping your distance and washing your hands is as much as you can do. He also says if wearing a mask makes you more comfortable then by all means do that but don't kid yourself -- wearing one ALL DAY LONG can cause problems and it will NOT save you if you are in an area with a high viral load and you are just one of the "lucky" ones.

I personally know several people who have tested positive. Every single one of them was/is a rabid mask-wearer. I do not wear a mask. However, I do use hand sanitizer and wipes when I'm out and touching anything (like a shopping cart) and I am especially aware of making sure I do not touch my face. So far, so good.

 

[chuter]

Responding to above questions:
Who to trust in the medical mainstream? I don't think the medical mainstream is as fragmented as our favorite sources of information may indicate. One you can likely trust is your physician. I'd bet that they read authoritative sources of research regularly. Don't go to them and ask about your pre-formed ideas from your information sources, however. You are paying them for their expertise. Let them share what they know without setting up an argument or they will likely acquiesce rather than argue fruitlessly and waste time.
One study or expose is exactly what a journ-o-list wants to write a gripping piece. They are not after the truth, just your attention. The news is always confused...you doctor reads broadly and is not. You might also consider online sources like Mayo Clinic and other respected medical names.

Trusting my physician; you mean the guy that brings his laptop into the room, does a cursory exam, and then reads the recommendations on his computer? Recommendations that are most assuredly influenced by big pharma?
The last time I had a physical I told him I'd lost 30 lbs and he didn't even ask how or why! It was from doing a low carb/keto diet, but he showed no interest at all.

You think doctors go home and spend all their waking hours reading the latest studies and sorting the crap from the good?
Please.
There is so much changing so fast there is no way anyone can keep up with it all.
Then throw in the cover-your-ass aspect, and they will tell you what the mainstream associations stand behind; again, influenced by who?

Over the last 2 years I've done a pretty deep dive into just the diet part of medical info, and finding a path thru it all is maddening.
False hoods have become mainstream over the last 50-70 years, and are now accepted as truth, just as we see global warming doing now. And the result is our epidemic of obesity and diabetes.

The only thing I trust about doctors is that they are human, subject to the same fears and frailties as all of us, and most of them are trying in their limited way to do good, hold a job, feed their families, and do their pursuit of happiness.

 

[cktad]

Good, thanks Okie4570

cktad - Yes doctors are busy but they are also plagued by patients self-educating using dubious sources. I'd suggest a second doctor's opinion rather than the internet.

Both are good alternatives. Not everything on the internet is a lie but you have to be selective. Even doctors use the internet.