Official OSA COVID-19/Corona Virus Thread

[cktad]

Trusting my physician; you mean the guy that brings his laptop into the room, does a cursory exam, and then reads the recommendations on his computer? Recommendations that are most assuredly influenced by big pharma?
The last time I had a physical I told him I'd lost 30 lbs and he didn't even ask how or why! It was from doing a low carb/keto diet, but he showed no interest at all.

That's the VA. They set you up with a followup appointment for your illness, read their laptop for 10 minutes, then ask why you are here for an appointment. You just spent 10 minutes reading my chart didn't it say why I'm here. I mean you're the one who wanted a followup visit.

My private doctor is better and more proactive. But the poor guy is overwhelmed with patients probably due to his good reputation.

 

[Okie4570]

Good, thanks Okie4570
Which parts are real and which are false? A tough question to answer but important I think. I do believe politics have significant influence especially in the blue states but the epidemic needs to be taken seriously. Elsewhere I've posted a physician's analysis showing that it is about 3 times as deadly as flu if you are infected....hopefully vaccines or therapeutants will lower this soon.....or wider use of Vit D as one responder posted.

Two often-expressed thoughts that are very counter-productive: "The entire thing is a fraud" and "Mask wearers are idiots or worse"

cktad - Yes doctors are busy but they are also plagued by patients self-educating using dubious sources. I'd suggest a second doctor's opinion rather than the internet.

"Which are real and which are false?" That's the tricky part, as those two can be one and the same and there's a "real yet false" narrative. It's real that it's contagious, it's real that people are/have died/dying...........it's also real that the death rate is low, even with comorbidities, extremely low for the healthy. It's real that the media sensationalizes the death rate and not the recovery rate, it's real that up until recently the media reported on ICU numbers, now they actually report on ICU numbers due to Covid. Yes covid ICU patients take up space and require nurses and causes a strain on staff, but what the media doesn't tell you is that often ICU are at capacity due to staffing issues, low numbers of nurses is an issue across the US, so if properly staffed, it wouldn't be an issue. It's real that state leaders have botched their response and blamed the POTUS. It's real that some of them have written books about their response and sold those books for their own personal financial gain.

It's also real when used as a political device..........half the country buys it, the other half doesn't, it's divisive and they use it at will. One of the pulmonologists that I was visiting with mentioned that other than vaccines, at no time have the federal, state, and local governments ever been so concerned with the health US citizens......."since when have they tried to save EVERY American from a particular source of potential death to the point that it crosses your Constitutional rights?" he said. "Why haven't they taken the "one death is too many stance" with any other virus or anything that's been proven to cause medical harm? If they were truly concerned, they would have banned tobacco decades ago. That alone could improve the health of millions, saved millions of lives, not just 200,000, decreased hospitalizations, medical insurance costs, life insurance costs, and the list goes on. "If it weren't for tobacco, I would see about a tenth of the patients I see normally, which would leave me with just the pneumonia, asthma, bronchitis, Cystic Fibrosis and the other rarity respiratory issues." he said.

There's an agenda for everything at every level of government, whether it benefits the people or just those at the top is the issue and is usually pretty obvious.

Two often-expressed thoughts that are very counter-productive: "The entire thing is a fraud" and "Mask wearers are idiots or worse" That represents a very small percentage of the population imo, even if we just polled those here on OSA. I'd be curious to see how many think the entire thing is a fraud, and that mask wearers are idiots. I do think the overall response and continued lock downs and closed business and churches is fraudulent, not doubting the virus is real, and those in power took advantage of it. Mask wearers should be allowed to wear there masks, those that don't should be allowed not to, NOBODY SHOULD BE MADE to do either is the battle cry of the almost all non mask wearers I've encountered or heard speak about it.

 

[JD8]

Part of the problem is us. We want to figure it out and fix it. But we are blind to our own shortcomings in terms of lack of understanding of the scientific and health care subject matter areas needed to be able to take all available studies in, process them and form a good opinion. There are disagreements within science and one study does not change everything. A study needs to be assessed in terms of experimental design (does it adequately control for confounding factors?), statistical validity and how it fits with other studies in the general area. Please do not try to obtain an understanding of science by googling - with rare exceptions the path to becoming equipped to understand science well is to go to graduate school and design and conduct experiments yourself and learn all preexisting research findings in an area (Epidemiology, Virology in this case). None of us in OSA have this skill set. Our doctors do not have this skill set but they read researchers who do.

Speak for yourself hotshot LOL..... I was involved in Zoology and genetic PRJ level studies in my undergrad for starters. Granted I can sit here and talk about anecdotes of friends in the industry, but I also have a wife that actually treats these patients too.

Also, it is incorrect to say that doctors don't have this skill set.... it depends.

Honestly, I think there's some irony to your post when you spoke of googling info.

 

[CHenry]

That's the VA. They set you up with a followup appointment for your illness, read their laptop for 10 minutes, then ask why you are here for an appointment. You just spent 10 minutes reading my chart didn't it say why I'm here. I mean you're the one who wanted a followup visit.

My private doctor is better and more proactive. But the poor guy is overwhelmed with patients probably due to his good reputation.

My doc spends a fair amount of time listening to me until I have finished. Hes old school though. And his patient load isnt huge, he purposely doesnt want to be too busy to properly do his job.

 

[Dale00]

Speak for yourself hotshot LOL..... I was involved in Zoology and genetic PRJ level studies in my undergrad for starters. Granted I can sit here and talk about anecdotes of friends in the industry, but I also have a wife that actually treats these patients too.
Also, it is incorrect to say that doctors don't have this skill set.... it depends.
Honestly, I think there's some irony to your post when you spoke of googling info.

Nothing in my post was googled. Yes I can tell from your posts that you have a background in biology. It's a very rare MD who knows epidemiology and virology well.....I don't think the top level researchers in these areas are running medical practices to any significant extent.

Okie4570 I think the reason that the system tried so hard to "save everyone" is because the public panic demanded action. The politicians surfed the waves of panic. Did the system overreact and make mistakes? Yes but it was/is a war and the best of plans needs to be frequently rewritten. Hopefully we will see an improving trend.

 

[JD8]

Nothing in my post was googled. Yes I can tell from your posts that you have a background in biology. It's a very rare MD who knows epidemiology and virology well.....I don't think the top level researchers in these areas are running medical practices to any significant extent.

Okie4570 I think the reason that the system tried so hard to "save everyone" is because the public panic demanded action. The politicians surfed the waves of panic. Did the system overreact and make mistakes? Yes but it was/is a war and the best of plans needs to be frequently rewritten. Hopefully we will see an improving trend.

Actually if you look at many of the PRJs that have been published regarding Covid, many have been from individuals practicing in the clinical setting. The point is that doctors are generally very well versed on PRJ level studies. Keep in mind, there are a few Docs on this board, and I'd put money that they could discern between junk science and studies that provide better foundation for their findings, even though they are are not Infectious Disease experts.

 

[Dale00]

This article strikes me as unethical. A former high level official, now being paid as a CNBC contributor, is making this statement just weeks away from the election. What is the basis for him believing we are a week away from this??? This is not mentioned. I hate how politicized things have become.

Former FDA chief Dr. Scott Gottlieb is warning that the United States is about “a week away from seeing a rapid acceleration” in Covid-19 cases. “The fall and winter season is when this coronavirus is going to want to spread,” These are going to be tough months, but we can’t let our guard down: Dr. Scott Gottlieb Dr. Scott Gottlieb is warning that the United States is about “a week away from seeing a rapid acceleration in cases” of Covid-19 as the number of coronavirus infections and hospitalizations surge.

In an interview on CNBC’s “The News with Shepard Smith” on Monday evening, the former FDA chief in the Trump administration explained that the country no longer has any pandemic backstops.

“The summer was a backstop, of sorts, to the spring surge, and we have no therapeutic backstop,” Gottlieb said. “The fall and winter season is when this coronavirus is going to want to spread.”

Echoing similar comments from Dr. Anthony Fauci, the nation’s top infectious disease expert, Gottlieb said the holiday season and family gatherings are especially precarious for the spread of coronavirus because that’s when people let their guard down. He was

While noting he’s optimistic about vaccine trials, Gottlieb said the first patients given inoculations under emergency use, if it’s granted, won’t have protective immunity until early 2021.

“We can look to happier days, but these are going to be some tough months ahead,” he said.

On “Squawk Box” on Monday morning, Gottlieb said, “We’re going to have to get through this next wave without the benefit of protective immunity from a vaccine.”

With infection surges in the U.S. and Europe, the number of confirmed coronavirus cases around the world topped 40 million on Monday, according to data from Johns Hopkins.

Disclosure: Scott Gottlieb is a CNBC contributor and is a.....

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/10/20/dr-...-a-week-away-from-rapid-covid-cases-rise.html

 

[cktad]

He's wrong it's 2 weeks.

 

[OKCHunter]

The Indian Institute of Technology on the effectiveness of reducing a cough cloud with a surgical mask and an N95 mask.

...”The volume of the cough-cloud without a mask is about 7 and 23 times larger than in the presence of a surgical mask and an N95 mask, respectively. We also find that the cough-cloud is present for 5 s–8 s, after which the cloud starts dissipating, irrespective of the presence or absence of a mask”...

In other words, surgical masks reduce the cloud size by 7 times; N95 masks reduce the size by 23 times.

Reducing chances of COVID-19 infection by a cough cloud in a closed space:

https://aip.scitation.org/doi/full/10.1063/5.0029186

 

[Dale00]

An excellent discussion of how we came to be in the middle of COVID fatigue and why we need to be more tolerant of differing views....by a thoughtful physician.