On Guns: Tucson Shows Two Visions of America

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I highlighted this guy's most inflammatory statemenst. He ends the article in a conciliatory tone, appealing to reasonableness. What is true about these sorts of people is that "reasonableness" is a tactic they use to push their opponets further and further from the so-called "middle ground."

This last week, I have read a lot of posts on social media by people I know professionally. It amazes and saddens me how they seek to blame an inanimate object for the actions of a human being. It also boggles my mind that they seem to have no concept of personal responsibility either for an individual's actions, or for their own self defense.





The gun issue confronts us with two competing visions of America. The Tucson tragedy puts those visions in stark, clarifying relief.

The gun lobby's vision is guns in every corner of American society. The National Rifle Association wants guns in more American homes. It wants more guns on the streets, in grocery stores, in restaurants, in coffee houses, in bars, in churches, at workplaces, at political events, and on college campuses. Guns everywhere, to deter criminals from attacking and to shoot back when they do.
Arizona is fast becoming the quintessential realization of this vision. Arizona has virtually no restrictions on guns (the Brady Center gives it 2 points out of a possible 100 in its state law ratings) and the state recently became the third state to allow people to carry concealed weapons in public places without a permit. The state also recently allowed concealed carriers to take their guns into bars.

Have weak gun laws made Arizonans safer? The state ranks 6th in the nation in gun deaths. FBI data indicates it ranks 13th in homicides per 100,000 population. Arizona criminals don't appear to be cowering in fear of armed, law-abiding citizens. Arizona also has become a favorite source of lethal weaponry for the Mexican drug cartels. Three Arizona gun dealers are among the top 12 American dealers in supplying Mexican crime guns.

Indeed, Arizona's gun laws are so non-existent that it was entirely legal for Jared Loughner to be carrying his Glock outside that Tucson Safeway up until the moment he pulled the trigger. He actually was one of the "law-abiding citizens" the NRA thinks is making us safer by carrying concealed weapons where we live, work and shop. If Loughner's community college, which expelled him because he was thought too dangerous to be in class, had reported his behavior to the Tucson police, Arizona law allowed them to do nothing to prevent him from carrying a concealed weapon.

All those Arizonans packing heat did not prevent the carnage in Tucson. There was, in fact, a law-abiding citizen with a gun on the scene at that Safeway. He told Ed Schultz he got to the shooter after someone else had grabbed the gun from the shooter's hands and he initially thought the hero was the shooter. In the NRA's America, where everyone has a gun, it is tough to tell the good guys from the bad.

Most Americans support a very different vision of America. It is a nation that allows responsible citizens to have guns in the home for self-defense, but imposes reasonable restrictions on guns to make it harder for dangerous people to be armed. In this America, a Jared Loughner would not be permitted to legally carry a gun to a Tucson Safeway. And he would not have available to him ammunition magazines that allowed him to fire over 30 shots from a semi-automatic without the need to reload, firepower that one law enforcement official has said "increased the lethality and body count of this attack."

Don't tell me the Second Amendment enforces the gun lobby's vision for America. The Supreme Court's recent rulings are entirely consistent with the alternative vision of reasonable restrictions. In its landmark opinion in District of Columbia v. Heller interpreting the Second Amendment to grant an individual right to have a gun in the home for self-defense, the High Court went out of its way to make clear that it was not recognizing a "right to keep and carry any weapon whatsoever in any manner whatsoever and for whatever purpose." Justice Scalia pointed to a host of gun restrictions that remain "presumptively lawful" even under the newly-recognized right, including bans on "dangerous and unusual weapons."

Loughner's 33-round ammunition magazine made his Glock pistol a very "dangerous and unusual" weapon. It is telling that Robert Levy, Chair of the libertarian CATO Institute and the mastermind behind the Heller case, this week told reporter Michael Isikoff that he thought a ban on high-capacity magazines would not violate the Second Amendment and makes sense from a policy standpoint.

There are pundits who say that now is not the time to address divisive issues and that we should move to the middle of the political spectrum in our policy debates. The punditry needs to understand, however, that support for reasonable restrictions on guns is in the middle of the political spectrum. Contrary to the conventional wisdom, gun control is not an issue that necessarily must divide those who own guns and those who do not.

If you don't believe me, ask Republican messaging maven Frank Luntz, who about a year ago did a far-reaching survey of gun owners, and particularly self-acknowledged NRA members, on their attitudes toward gun control. In an op-ed he wrote with Tom Barrett, Democratic Mayor of Milwaukee, Luntz reported, for example, that 86% of non-NRA gun owners, and 69% of NRA members, support extending Brady Law background checks to all sales at gun shows. Luntz said his poll "also found support among NRA members and other gun owners for numerous other policies to strengthen safety, security and law enforcement." He concluded that "the culture war over the right to bear arms isn't much of a war after all."

There is, in fact, a strong national consensus supporting specific additional gun restrictions that still allow law abiding and responsible adults to make the ultimate choice about owning a gun. This consensus has not been translated into public policy because too many of our elected officials are intimidated by the NRA -- a noisy, threatening lobby that does not even represent its own members on the question of reasonable regulation of guns.
Those who own guns and those who do not, to a surprising degree, have the same vision for America. Now that a much-admired Member of Congress lies seriously wounded, and the nation mourns yet another mass shooting and the fatal wounding of yet another child, is it too much to ask for a modicum of courage from Congress, and the President, to make that vision a reality?

For more information, see Dennis Henigan's Lethal Logic: Exploding the Myths that Paralyze American Gun Policy (Potomac Books 2009)
 

cjjtulsa

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There is, in fact, a strong national consensus supporting specific additional gun restrictions that still allow law abiding and responsible adults to make the ultimate choice about owning a gun.

And no matter what he says, or what survey or op-ed he digs up from the depths of nowhere - I've never seen much national consensus at all on gun restrictions in this country, much less a "strong" national consensus. He is FOS.
 
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If the NRA does not represent it's members, it's due to the fact that they concede ground they shouldn't. Most NRA members I know are dissapointed with the NRA because of their tactics and how they pick and choose which ideas on the 2nd Amendment they will support.

Mr. Henigan is obviously anti-gun and his op-ed piece here is full of misstatements, which are intended to sway the gullible to his views on the subject. This will sell well in the blue states and districts, but not anywhere else.
 

Pepper46

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"Loughner's 33-round ammunition magazine made his Glock pistol a very "dangerous and unusual" weapon."
Like everyone else who just wants to spout rhetoric, they ignore the glaring facts.
The one fact that can not be denied, nor argued with any logic is the fact, Glock, S&W, or Colt, doesn't matter.
Loughner is the what made this Glock, a dangerous weapon.
 

vvvvvvv

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It is telling that Robert Levy, Chair of the libertarian CATO Institute and the mastermind behind the Heller case, this week told reporter Michael Isikoff that he thought a ban on high-capacity magazines would not violate the Second Amendment and makes sense from a policy standpoint.

Here's another reason why I don't trust the CATO Institute.
 

Gideon

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The gun lobby's vision is guns in every corner of American society. The National Rifle Association wants guns in more American homes. It wants more guns on the streets, in grocery stores, in restaurants, in coffee houses, in bars, in churches, at workplaces, at political events, and on college campuses. Guns everywhere, to deter criminals from attacking and to shoot back when they do.

If you list a lot of places apparently that makes it seem more ludicrous.

Arizona is fast becoming the quintessential realization of this vision. Arizona has virtually no restrictions on guns (the Brady Center gives it 2 points out of a possible 100 in its state law ratings) and the state recently became the third state to allow people to carry concealed weapons in public places without a permit. The state also recently allowed concealed carriers to take their guns into bars.

Have weak gun laws made Arizonans safer? The state ranks 6th in the nation in gun deaths. FBI data indicates it ranks 13th in homicides per 100,000 population. Arizona criminals don't appear to be cowering in fear of armed, law-abiding citizens.

Also of note, Florida has more shark attacks than Montana...surely this is because of Florida's loose shark laws.

Arizona also has become a favorite source of lethal weaponry for the Mexican drug cartels. Three Arizona gun dealers are among the top 12 American dealers in supplying Mexican crime guns.

This is news to the cartels, who just get their guns from the Mexican police and military.

Indeed, Arizona's gun laws are so non-existent that it was entirely legal for Jared Loughner to be carrying his Glock outside that Tucson Safeway up until the moment he pulled the trigger. He actually was one of the "law-abiding citizens" the NRA thinks is making us safer by carrying concealed weapons where we live, work and shop. If Loughner's community college, which expelled him because he was thought too dangerous to be in class, had reported his behavior to the Tucson police, Arizona law allowed them to do nothing to prevent him from carrying a concealed weapon.

But could he have bought it in the first place?

All those Arizonans packing heat did not prevent the carnage in Tucson. There was, in fact, a law-abiding citizen with a gun on the scene at that Safeway. He told Ed Schultz he got to the shooter after someone else had grabbed the gun from the shooter's hands and he initially thought the hero was the shooter. In the NRA's America, where everyone has a gun, it is tough to tell the good guys from the bad.

Responsible gun owner...pulls gun when in danger...doesn't shoot the wrong person...

...see, people can't be trusted with guns.

Most Americans support a very different vision of America. It is a nation that allows responsible citizens to have guns in the home for self-defense, but imposes reasonable restrictions on guns to make it harder for dangerous people to be armed.

Most Americans...that I know...and went to college with me at UC Berkeley.

In this America, a Jared Loughner would not be permitted to legally carry a gun to a Tucson Safeway.

I REALLY want to murder someone, but I'd have to jaywalk to do it...nah, I wouldn't want to get a ticket or anything.

And he would not have available to him ammunition magazines that allowed him to fire over 30 shots from a semi-automatic without the need to reload, firepower that one law enforcement official has said "increased the lethality and body count of this attack."

As we all know, bullets are more deadly if there are other bullets around to give them confidence and cheer them on.

Don't tell me the Second Amendment enforces the gun lobby's vision for America.

The Second Amendment enforces the gun lobby's vision of America. It also ensures that my individual right to do whatever the **** I want will not be trampled by your collective distaste for me doing what I want.

The Supreme Court's recent rulings are entirely consistent with the alternative vision of reasonable restrictions. In its landmark opinion in District of Columbia v. Heller interpreting the Second Amendment to grant an individual right to have a gun in the home for self-defense, the High Court went out of its way to make clear that it was not recognizing a "right to keep and carry any weapon whatsoever in any manner whatsoever and for whatever purpose." Justice Scalia pointed to a host of gun restrictions that remain "presumptively lawful" even under the newly-recognized right, including bans on "dangerous and unusual weapons."

NEW FROM GLOCK! NON-DANGEROUS FIREARMS!!!

Loughner's 33-round ammunition magazine made his Glock pistol a very "dangerous and unusual" weapon. It is telling that Robert Levy, Chair of the libertarian CATO Institute and the mastermind behind the Heller case, this week told reporter Michael Isikoff that he thought a ban on high-capacity magazines would not violate the Second Amendment and makes sense from a policy standpoint.

Quote the other guys, don't offer their reasoning or explanation, mission accomplished.

There are pundits who say that now is not the time to address divisive issues and that we should move to the middle of the political spectrum in our policy debates. The punditry needs to understand, however, that support for reasonable restrictions on guns is in the middle of the political spectrum. Contrary to the conventional wisdom, gun control is not an issue that necessarily must divide those who own guns and those who do not.

Of course it must, because it's an issue that only effects those of us who own guns.

If you don't believe me, ask Republican messaging maven Frank Luntz, who about a year ago did a far-reaching survey of gun owners, and particularly self-acknowledged NRA members, on their attitudes toward gun control. In an op-ed he wrote with Tom Barrett, Democratic Mayor of Milwaukee, Luntz reported, for example, that 86% of non-NRA gun owners, and 69% of NRA members, support extending Brady Law background checks to all sales at gun shows. Luntz said his poll "also found support among NRA members and other gun owners for numerous other policies to strengthen safety, security and law enforcement." He concluded that "the culture war over the right to bear arms isn't much of a war after all."

Making sure that background checks work properly, and making sure law enforcement is well equipped has ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with my right to own and carry a firearm that I can legally own.

There is, in fact, a strong national consensus supporting specific additional gun restrictions that still allow law abiding and responsible adults to make the ultimate choice about owning a gun. This consensus has not been translated into public policy because too many of our elected officials are intimidated by the NRA -- a noisy, threatening lobby that does not even represent its own members on the question of reasonable regulation of guns.

Make claim that "there is, in fact, a strong national concensus"...realize it was made up...hope no one notices when it isn't cited anywhere.

Those who own guns and those who do not, to a surprising degree, have the same vision for America. Now that a much-admired Member of Congress lies seriously wounded, and the nation mourns yet another mass shooting and the fatal wounding of yet another child, is it too much to ask for a modicum of courage from Congress, and the President, to make that vision a reality?

I honestly hadn't heard of her until she got shot in the head, that's the sort of publicity stunts congress members have to pull these days to even matter.
 

Dale00

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Most Americans support a very different vision of America. It is a nation that allows responsible citizens to have guns in the home for self-defense, but imposes reasonable restrictions on guns to make it harder for dangerous people to be armed. In this America, a Jared Loughner would not be permitted to legally carry a gun to a Tucson Safeway.

Of course madmen and criminals would be permitted to carry a gun to Tucson Safeway...

...unless you are implying that in a reasonable America there would be police stopping people everywhere and searching them for concealed firearms.

While we are at it, lets stop and review all of the other people who shot public officials. Was it legal for all of them to be carrying their gun? I guess so according to your logic.
 

cjjtulsa

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Most Americans support a very different vision of America. It is a nation that allows responsible citizens to have guns in the home for self-defense, but imposes reasonable restrictions on guns to make it harder for dangerous people to be armed.

So what exactly are these "reasonable restrictions"? If he's arguing making it harder for people with mental issues, criminal histories, etc., from buying guns.....I don't know of anyone who has a problem with that. Smaller capacity magazines, no shoulder things that go up.....banning things like that won't "make it harder for dangerous people to be armed", it will just make it so they are armed with something other than high-cap mags and STTGU. Mission not accomplished....at least not that mission.
 

vvvvvvv

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So what exactly are these "reasonable restrictions"? If he's arguing making it harder for people with mental issues, criminal histories, etc., from buying guns.....I don't know of anyone who has a problem with that. Smaller capacity magazines, no shoulder things that go up.....banning things like that won't "make it harder for dangerous people to be armed", it will just make it so they are armed with something other than high-cap mags and STTGU. Mission not accomplished....at least not that mission.

What wrong with someone who has a "criminal history" buying a firearm?
 

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