Pass a law please.....

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SoonerP226

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So we need the government to pass a law that infringes on business owners/private property rights in order to protect our right to carry?
Not for that, just to make it clear that they are assuming liability for my safety when they deny me the ability to defend myself. I'm not sure that a new law is actually needed for the liability issue (see below), but it would certainly clarify the issue.

When I took the SDA course back in '97-ish, my instructor was an administrator at Norman Regional Hospital. He said that their legal counsel had looked into the liability aspect of posting no-carry signs, and had determined that by doing so, they were accepting liability for the safety of everyone entering the hospital. (FWIW, he said that they went ahead with the posting because they thought their security preparations made the actual risk negligible, but the liability was a consideration.)
 

SMS

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Not for that, just to make it clear that they are assuming liability for my safety when they deny me the ability to defend myself. I'm not sure that a new law is actually needed for the liability issue (see below), but it would certainly clarify the issue.

Why should a business/private property owner be liable for your willful decision to disarm and enter an establishment? It's private property. You do not have a right or critical necessity to be there in the first place.
 

Dukester

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Why should a business/private property owner be liable for your willful decision to disarm and enter an establishment? It's private property. You do not have a right or critical necessity to be there in the first place.

As much as I hate the free gun zone mindset and think it to be truly ignorant, I have to agree with your argument........dammit.
 

farmerbyron

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So we need the government to pass a law that infringes on business owners/private property rights in order to protect our right to carry?

How 'bout this. If place is posted and it really bothers you...wait for it...Go do business somewhere else.



So a sign denying service to Muslims, gays, trannys, etc. is fine? Really need to get rid of the "we don't take kindly to your kind around here" mindset.
 

SoonerP226

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Why should a business/private property owner be liable for your willful decision to disarm and enter an establishment? It's private property. You do not have a right or critical necessity to be there in the first place.
I'm not a lawyer, but I'd guess that the legal concept of assuming liability for the safety of the guests on your premises is based on the ancient custom of assuming liability for protecting your guests. That one, I'm pretty certain, is as old as civilization itself.
 

SMS

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I'm not a lawyer, but I'd guess that the legal concept of assuming liability for the safety of the guests on your premises is based on the ancient custom of assuming liability for protecting your guests. That one, I'm pretty certain, is as old as civilization itself.

Liability from negligent accidents and unsafe physical conditions is one thing, but requiring an armed guard or suing someone for a random criminal act occurring on the premises is another.

I still don't understand why some think the right to bear arms trumps a private property owner's rights...nobody is forcing you to go in there so why should they be liable for protecting you? Private property rights are just as sacred as 2nd Amendment rights IMHO.

I consider the "No Firearms" sign the same as an "Enter at your own risk" sign...
 

Glocktogo

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Why should a business/private property owner be liable for your willful decision to disarm and enter an establishment? It's private property. You do not have a right or critical necessity to be there in the first place.

They also have a right to close their doors to the public. :)

IMO, they are in business to make money. To do so, they invite the public onto their property and in their facilities. I have no issue with them exercising their rights to deny arms. However, if they do so they should also be liable to take reasonable precautions to ensure the safety of the public. To me that means armed security. If they don't and someone gets shot on their property, they should be liable civilly for not taking reasonable precautions. For me, concealed means concealed. I don't bother to read signs on non-governmental property. If they ask me to leave, I will do so without hesitation (taking my money with me). :)

I'm not a lawyer, but I'd guess that the legal concept of assuming liability for the safety of the guests on your premises is based on the ancient custom of assuming liability for protecting your guests. That one, I'm pretty certain, is as old as civilization itself.

This. If someone gets hurt on private property, it usually falls to the property owner to assume liability unless other insurance is in effect. This is why I insist that contractors carry liability insurance and workers comp on any employees before doing work on my property. As far as a for profit business open to the public, this creates a "attractive nuisance" in my estimation (money to be robbed). If the property owner refuses a person entering to carry their own insurance (SDA permit & gun), then their adequate prevention measures and/or insurance should cover the liability. :)
 

Glocktogo

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Liability from negligent accidents and unsafe physical conditions is one thing, but requiring an armed guard or suing someone for a random criminal act occurring on the premises is another.

I still don't understand why some think the right to bear arms trumps a private property owner's rights...nobody is forcing you to go in there so why should they be liable for protecting you? Private property rights are just as sacred as 2nd Amendment rights IMHO.

I consider the "No Firearms" sign the same as an "Enter at your own risk" sign...

And an "enter at your own risk" sign might limit liability, but it doesn't abolish it. No more than a "hold harmless" form will. :)
 

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