Pigs, Gristle Plate (Shield), Arrow weight, etc

[Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow]

Check out this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZ1Mg0a7Tpw

After you watch it, can anyone here tell me, when they say "350-425 grain arrow" as being inadequate, are they referring to 350-425 grains SHAFT ONLY - BEFORE broadhead, insert, nock, and fletching. Or are they referring to 425 grains INCLUDING everything, do you think? I.e. He says "you got to have a 500-600 grain arrow, to have a chance" - does that mean 500-600 before or after tip, insert, nock, and fletch?

I'm assuming he means 500-600 WITH everything is good, and that 425 WITH everything is too little -- but if he means that 425 shaft ONLY is too little, and 500-600 shaft ONLY is what you need, then wow, that means he's saying have a 600-700 gr arrow with everything!

Also, semi-related subject, I have a PSE Tac-10 that I sold but bought back from the guy. Until I get a Gearheard or Skorpyd, it will have to do, along with my Liberty I'll be getting this spring. Anyway, the Tac-15 shoots a 26.25" arrow and the Tac-10 shoots a 23.0" arrow - PSE has these proprietary arrows that they say in essence "you must use these, exactly", with each matched to the bow.

But what I'd like to do is to shoot the 26.25" arrows in my Tac-10, sacrificing a bit of velocity but gaining some ballistic coefficient, sectional density, and probably quietness. I CAN see the harm in shooting a lighter arrow from either one of these bows than what they recommend - but I cannot see any harm in shooting a heavier arrow, in terms of danger like carbon splitting etc. The only problem I foresee is possibly not enough fletch to stabilize them at the slower speed with the Tac-10, with the four 3" duravanes. But I can easily remedy this by running with four 4" quik-spins.

Anyone else see any harm in running with the longer tac-15 arrows in the tac-10, besides stabilization? I mean, if they can handle the 405 fps of the tac-15, they can surely handle the 325 or so fps of the Tac-10, right (I'm figuring 350 fps with the 23s, should mean that the slightly heavier 26s will hit around 325 with the same head)? I suppose not enough flex could be a problem, and cause the arrows to hit too far left --But, they come with 100 gr broadheads, and I'd like to use 125s anyway, for a couple of different reasons. Now this I *could* see a problem with, in terms of actual danger, withOUT switching arrows, because the heavier head adds to the flex, and with too much flex, you could potentially split the CF (and hit too far right - minor problem). But my thoughts are this: If I use the 26.25" tac-15 arrows (reducing my flex), but switch to 125 gr instead of 100 gr broadheads (which increases flex) - I'm thinking that thes two factors will probably "cancel each other out", and the flex will end up about right. Then I'll have a heavy arrow with an excellent BC and SD (relative to other crossbows), and still gettin it over 300 fps.

I know, "bolt", but I call them arrows because they're more like an arrow in proportions.

I want to have plenty of oomph for the biggest pig, since there's a lot of them on my new lease this year, even broadside, and even coming down from a treestand, through the gristle plate into the vitals.

Also, check out these pig hunts in Northern Michigan - these boars are nearly 100% Eurasian boar - big, mean, funky-looking compared to our feral pigs, and able to thrive in the cold extremes of northern USA:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7NqBDMTNrgo&feature=related

 

[dennishoddy]

Just shoot them! I tried different broadheads on the bolts for my Excaliber Equinox, and the accuracy was not as good as the 150 grain broadheads that Excaliber recomends.

Btw, on my hog/bow hunt, a couple of years ago, guys were taking hogs with 100 grain broadheads. Lots of hype in killing a hog. That gristle plate can stop some pistol bullets, but an arrow will go right through.

 

[Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow]

Well Dennis, thanks, but the video I linked to clearly shows that an arrow does NOT just "go right through"; that'd be the whole point of the video. The arrow went in 2.5" and stopped cold. Do you think the video is doctor'ed / BS or what?

 

[crg1372]

I wanna say I'm surprised a little, but in a way I'm not. We (me and some hunting buddies) have killed some large boars that had very dense side plates. These were old boars and fighters to have that much scar tissue build up. After we skinned them the side plate was a good 2 inches or more thick and so dense it wouldn't even flex. You could knock on it with your fist and it sounded like you were knocking on solid wood. I think a crossbow would be much more effective though.

 

[Oklahomabassin]

Well Dennis, thanks, but the video I linked to clearly shows that an arrow does NOT just "go right through"; that'd be the whole point of the video. The arrow went in 2.5" and stopped cold. Do you think the video is doctor'ed / BS or what?

I watched the video and I am not going to touch it. But I do know a carbon maxima 350 will go through a steel commercial garage door completely and the tail will whip around and slap the door and break the carbon fibers. The arrow still exited dragging the fletching end with it. I also know a montec tipped maxima will go through 18 inch of block target if shot enough and completely through sheetrock and be difficult to pull from exterior brick wall. I do believe my bow and set up would penetrate a lot deeper in a hog. Shot placement is crucial on a bigger hog.

 

[crg1372]

One thing to note about the video is that the hog shown in it is clearly a European boar or a Russian Boar. Looks Russian to me. The hogs are more aggresive and probably fight more than our hogs here in Oklahoma. Bigger cutters mean more damage and deeper cuts so it wouldn't surprise me any if those hogs had really thick side plates.

 

[dennishoddy]

Well Dennis, thanks, but the video I linked to clearly shows that an arrow does NOT just "go right through"; that'd be the whole point of the video. The arrow went in 2.5" and stopped cold. Do you think the video is doctor'ed / BS or what?

I watched the video again after seeing your post. They didn't show any autopsy results, nor offer any proof other than their word.
I know what my compound bow setup did, and know what the others in my party(six hunters) did, and we all brought home feral hogs with one shot. BTW, on that hunt I was using Montech 125 grain G-5's, 65 lb pull, Bear Kodiak magnum Compound bow.

 

[crg1372]

Here's another video of two guys trailing fighting feral hogs not getting deep penetration.

 

[dennishoddy]

Those were some big hogs! I wasn't too impressed with their shot placment though. When I went on our hog hunt with bows, the landowner shared a pic with us of the vitals of a hog, vs the vitals of a deer. Hogs vitals are further forward, and lower than a deer.

 

[Oklahomabassin]

crg1372---Video: I would bet money those are somebodies breeder boars that were released just prior to the video. Also those bows appear to be old technology that don't have near the energy that new bows have. Shot placement wasn't the best either, especially the one they showed that went right into the top of the shoulder.

To all: you don't need complete pass through with an arrow to get a kill. (Exit would helps in tracking) The vitals are located in the center of the chest in relation to thickness of a hog. If you get half the width of the pig penetrated and your shot placement is good, you killed a pig.

If going after big hogs, use a good 1 piece fixed broad head. (I prefer them all the time) Expandable broad heads and fixed with replaceable blades can lose blades and get deformed by heavy bones.