PTR 91 - Good Buy, or Stay Away From?

[jakerz]

I'm not trying to sound like a ****ing ***** when it comes to the recoil. My complaint there is with the shape of the grip, but yeah, whatever, you know that is how it goes.

I'll rephrase. I've never shot a PTR with any kind of grip, so I'm not sure how to help in "the number the recoil does on your hand" department. Maybe wearing a glove might help. I don't know. Just trying to help out.

 

[JD8]

Lol. You carelessly drop your lower, buy cheap parts and magazines, and complain about well known issues with the gun. Sure you just didn't do enough research?

Load to 18, not the full 20. Rifle will tend to feed better. The problem is the assbackwards push button mag release the semi-auto guns have instead of the original paddle like the AK/FAL/M1A. You know you still have got to kinda rock it in front-back, right? That's how it was designed, just like the AK/FAL/M1A. You're not getting the mag seated correctly. It's not "straight up" AR-style. It will work well like that, sure, but it's not quite as simple as the AR's "up and in" if you want to make damn sure it seats properly. So, front up first, rock the back in. Just like an AK/FAL/M1A. The pressure from the 20 rounders loaded full will not let it seat entirely, either.

I learned this myself after literally two months trying to get my CETME to feed and not being able to figure out why it kept missing the round or slamming the cartridge nose first into the receiver. One of the real reasons a paddle mag release mod is considered a necessity and not just something that looks cool. Imagine if you will an AK; If you lock the rear tab but the front is unsecured, it will slam rounds directly into the bottom of the trunnion. If you lock in the front tab but not the rear, it won't pick up rounds. Exact same thing.

Also, a lot of those surplus mags are junk. H&K designed them to be totally disposable which is why there was an ungodly amount surplussed out. Don't be surprised to find 1 in 10 to be terrible, maybe higher.

Don't buy cheap parts for the gun. I bought a CETME off of here for my very first semi-auto rifle and it came with a UTG quad rail and the UTG claw mount.

Number one, UTG is ****. It is airsoft grade stuff. I mean yeah some of it works really well for what it is but it's still going to be a lot heavier and less refined. Scraped the ever loving hell out of my knuckles trying to work the charging handle with the UTG handguard. The UTG claw mount is a whole 'nother cluster of bollocks.

Number two, ANY claw mount you have to make sure it is mounted in the slots on the receiver and not on too tight otherwise it will slightly flex the sheet metal receiver and cause issues with the bolt's travel by slowing it and can cause malfunctions. The UTG is special in that it doesn't line up too well with the mounting slots which makes it a sub-par choice and offers wandering zeroes and a QD feature that, I assure you, is a design flaw and not a feature.

Like I said, airsoft grade. Great for putting on an HK airsoft clone but it's not engineered and designed the same way an actual gun part is. They didn't set down and say "okay now this is how the system works and these are the limitations of said system (IE, the flexible receiver) and this is what we have to do to make it work." MOre like, "Dude my Tasco dot is super low on my WEG greengas G-3 now!"

Which don't get me wrong, I'm sure that low mounted Tasco looks totally ninja but it is ultimately just looks for them.

The bad news is that a really decent claw mount will work, but it will cost significantly more. However you will see return on investment. Otherwise I would suggest removing the claw mount and getting really good with irons the next few paychecks. Broger and Thomet, my friend. The Swedes used a lot of the B&T H&K accessories for their AK-4/G-3, as did the Germans. They have a really, really low mounting one made for aimpoints that is....really nice.

Dinged brass is a design feature of all HK91s. Brass is soft, and the action is violent. It violently slams that soft and malleable brass body as hard as it can against the ejection port while cycling. This can be cured by a port buffer, though I've heard very mixed results using this method. Some swear by it and some swear at it as a waste of money. So your mileage my vary. I'd recommend steel case as the GI guns were designed for steel case in mind. Not the original German GI G-3s but the PTR-91 GIs.

My DSA FAL dings the hell out of brass, too, as does my CMP .308 Garand. About one in every ten are no longer useable. Meh, that's life. HK91 and clones tend to do it at a faster rate, however.

Anyways, to recap, it's not going to be a "project gun" to get this thing going. Buy the sight tools and zero your irons. Take off the cheap wobbly scope mount that tends to walk loose because it wasn't designed with the limitations and flaws of the rifle's design in mind. Seat your magazines correctly in the magwell, rocked front to back, just as God himself as well as the Mauser engineers intended. Install a port buffer. Maybe a recoil buffer from HKparts if you plan on shooting it a lot, the good one designed after the actual buffer in the stock and not the craptastic blue tab that snaps on to the end of the return spring. Save up and buy a purpose designed scope mount or just use irons. and do not over tighten your scope mount.

The PTR-91 is an awesome rifle once you accept it for what it is, which is a cheap and quick to produce but ultimately wholly replaceable conscript's gun that could either be lost in a Russian tundra at no great loss for the Fatherland in cash and man-hours to produce or ran over by a tank and the dents beat out with a more refined teutonic hammer and punch set and then reissued.

G-3s were issued with "field armourer kits" that were designed specifically for someone in the field to be able to straight bent metal parts and knock dents out of the receiver that would totally take the rifle out of action until it could be repaired with said kit. So yeah it's not going to handle drops well and dents and hard knocks can seize the gun up but it is no big deal to fix. It's not necessarily super fragile (I mean they threw the damned thing out of helicopters just to make sure the trigger wouldn't release) but you don't wanna slam it against a tree over and over as a torture test.

Thanks for taking the time to post this. Good info.

 

[ASP785]

Have you called the company to ask them their thoughts?

It's unfortunate because your experience is 100% opposite of mine.

 

[rebelracer79]

For the recoil , you know your supposed to be pulling the rifle into your shoulder right? For rifle work you should not be doing much with your back hand other than keeping the rifle from canting and working the trigger

 

[Jestik]

For the recoil , you know your supposed to be pulling the rifle into your shoulder right? For rifle work you should not be doing much with your back hand other than keeping the rifle from canting and working the trigger

I was referring to the recoil that my right hand feels when it is holding the gun. My shoulder doesn't hurt from the recoil at all. The pistol grip on the "Navy polymer lower" is extremely thin and it really cuts into the meat of your hand when firing.

I sure as heck wish that all of the people posting in this thread lived closer to the OKC area, because I'd love to get with you guys and show you exactly what I am talking about.

 

[Jestik]

Lol. You carelessly drop your lower, buy cheap parts and magazines, and complain about well known issues with the gun. Sure you just didn't do enough research?

Load to 18, not the full 20. Rifle will tend to feed better. The problem is the assbackwards push button mag release the semi-auto guns have instead of the original paddle like the AK/FAL/M1A. You know you still have got to kinda rock it in front-back, right? That's how it was designed, just like the AK/FAL/M1A. You're not getting the mag seated correctly. It's not "straight up" AR-style. It will work well like that, sure, but it's not quite as simple as the AR's "up and in" if you want to make damn sure it seats properly. So, front up first, rock the back in. Just like an AK/FAL/M1A. The pressure from the 20 rounders loaded full will not let it seat entirely, either.

I learned this myself after literally two months trying to get my CETME to feed and not being able to figure out why it kept missing the round or slamming the cartridge nose first into the receiver. One of the real reasons a paddle mag release mod is considered a necessity and not just something that looks cool. Imagine if you will an AK; If you lock the rear tab but the front is unsecured, it will slam rounds directly into the bottom of the trunnion. If you lock in the front tab but not the rear, it won't pick up rounds. Exact same thing.

Also, a lot of those surplus mags are junk. H&K designed them to be totally disposable which is why there was an ungodly amount surplussed out. Don't be surprised to find 1 in 10 to be terrible, maybe higher.

Don't buy cheap parts for the gun. I bought a CETME off of here for my very first semi-auto rifle and it came with a UTG quad rail and the UTG claw mount.

Number one, UTG is ****. It is airsoft grade stuff. I mean yeah some of it works really well for what it is but it's still going to be a lot heavier and less refined. Scraped the ever loving hell out of my knuckles trying to work the charging handle with the UTG handguard. The UTG claw mount is a whole 'nother cluster of bollocks.

Number two, ANY claw mount you have to make sure it is mounted in the slots on the receiver and not on too tight otherwise it will slightly flex the sheet metal receiver and cause issues with the bolt's travel by slowing it and can cause malfunctions. The UTG is special in that it doesn't line up too well with the mounting slots which makes it a sub-par choice and offers wandering zeroes and a QD feature that, I assure you, is a design flaw and not a feature.

Like I said, airsoft grade. Great for putting on an HK airsoft clone but it's not engineered and designed the same way an actual gun part is. They didn't set down and say "okay now this is how the system works and these are the limitations of said system (IE, the flexible receiver) and this is what we have to do to make it work." MOre like, "Dude my Tasco dot is super low on my WEG greengas G-3 now!"

Which don't get me wrong, I'm sure that low mounted Tasco looks totally ninja but it is ultimately just looks for them.

The bad news is that a really decent claw mount will work, but it will cost significantly more. However you will see return on investment. Otherwise I would suggest removing the claw mount and getting really good with irons the next few paychecks. Broger and Thomet, my friend. The Swedes used a lot of the B&T H&K accessories for their AK-4/G-3, as did the Germans. They have a really, really low mounting one made for aimpoints that is....really nice.

Dinged brass is a design feature of all HK91s. Brass is soft, and the action is violent. It violently slams that soft and malleable brass body as hard as it can against the ejection port while cycling. This can be cured by a port buffer, though I've heard very mixed results using this method. Some swear by it and some swear at it as a waste of money. So your mileage my vary. I'd recommend steel case as the GI guns were designed for steel case in mind. Not the original German GI G-3s but the PTR-91 GIs.

My DSA FAL dings the hell out of brass, too, as does my CMP .308 Garand. About one in every ten are no longer useable. Meh, that's life. HK91 and clones tend to do it at a faster rate, however.

Anyways, to recap, it's not going to be a "project gun" to get this thing going. Buy the sight tools and zero your irons. Take off the cheap wobbly scope mount that tends to walk loose because it wasn't designed with the limitations and flaws of the rifle's design in mind. Seat your magazines correctly in the magwell, rocked front to back, just as God himself as well as the Mauser engineers intended. Install a port buffer. Maybe a recoil buffer from HKparts if you plan on shooting it a lot, the good one designed after the actual buffer in the stock and not the craptastic blue tab that snaps on to the end of the return spring. Save up and buy a purpose designed scope mount or just use irons. and do not over tighten your scope mount.

The PTR-91 is an awesome rifle once you accept it for what it is, which is a cheap and quick to produce but ultimately wholly replaceable conscript's gun that could either be lost in a Russian tundra at no great loss for the Fatherland in cash and man-hours to produce or ran over by a tank and the dents beat out with a more refined teutonic hammer and punch set and then reissued.

G-3s were issued with "field armourer kits" that were designed specifically for someone in the field to be able to straight bent metal parts and knock dents out of the receiver that would totally take the rifle out of action until it could be repaired with said kit. So yeah it's not going to handle drops well and dents and hard knocks can seize the gun up but it is no big deal to fix. It's not necessarily super fragile (I mean they threw the damned thing out of helicopters just to make sure the trigger wouldn't release) but you don't wanna slam it against a tree over and over as a torture test.

Yeah, don't I feel like a ****** ****** ******jackass newbie.

Let me know next time you are in the OKC Metro.

Also, the feeding problems continued after the magazine was down to 18 rounds and less. Additionally, what do you think would cause the gun to not extract a round in the chamber after racking the bolt to the rear repeatedly, doing so only after 6 or 7 times?

 

[Jestik]

Have you called the company to ask them their thoughts?

It's unfortunate because your experience is 100% opposite of mine.

What is so weird is that on my first outing with the PTR-91, I had ZERO problems, and that was shooting steel cased ammunition in the same mags. I do think that I will remove the scope mount, QD base, and scope and see if I can just work the irons. My eyes are not the best,but I will give it a try.

 

[rebelracer79]

I was referring to the recoil that my right hand feels when it is holding the gun. My shoulder doesn't hurt from the recoil at all. The pistol grip on the "Navy polymer lower" is extremely thin and it really cuts into the meat of your hand when firing. I sure as heck wish that all of the people posting in this thread lived closer to the OKC area, because I'd love to get with you guys and show you exactly what I am talking about.

Your right hand should not be absorbing much recoil, use your left hand to pull the rifle into your shoulder more.

As for your feeding and ejecting issues, have you ever seen a rifle that had too much oil to fire? Me neither, but I've sure as hell seen some that were too dry to cycle

 

[Jestik]

Your right hand should not be absorbing much recoil, use your left hand to pull the rifle into your shoulder more.

As for your feeding and ejecting issues, have you ever seen a rifle that had too much oil to fire? Me neither, but I've sure as hell seen some that were too dry to cycle

The rifle was properly lubricated, oiled, and cleaned before firing. It was not too dry to fire.

As to the recoil question, let me know next time you are in OKC and we can go out to the range and shoot it and you can see what I am talking about.

 

[Brandi]

Maybe one of those Hogue slip on grip thingies would help, I use them on my Glocks because the plastic grip is rough on my hands and it makes it easier to hold.