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The Range
Rifle & Shotgun Discussion
Rifle n00b-lotsa questions...
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<blockquote data-quote="Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow" data-source="post: 1023906" data-attributes="member: 7123"><p>No, no, no, gawdsakes no. Mounting a scope and bore-sighting are quite simple, and the scopes that come with these packages, as well as the rings, are generally junk. The rig is only as strong as the weakest link, and you're setting yourself up for a weak link. Get moderate to high quality glass, and high quality rings, definitely. PM me for advice.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Used is fine, yes, and is a better deal usually; to avoid getting gouged, you're just gonna have to educate, educate, educate yourself by reading a lot, and/or, at the time you spot a potential purchase, inspect it, take notes, then say "I'll get back to you", then go research it before buying.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Mil-dot, schmil-dot, BDC, Schmee-dee-cee. Get a <u>good</u> scope - AND rings/base scope - that's important. Gizmos are relatively unimportant. You can learn holdover just like our ancestors did. Unlike rifles, you CAN easily get a junk scope, so the research here is arguably even more important on the rifle. Nikons are great but their BDC is crap. If you must have a BDC, a regular one with hash marks, not circles, is preferred, but only actually helpful if matched to the chambering you are using.</p><p></p><p>Your action type of course, will be a<strong> turnbolt </strong>rifle. Maaaaybe a semi-auto like an AR15, but I wouldn't recommend it for a benchrest gun, and especially not on a limited budget. Turnbolt rifles represent the high-water mark of rifle value for your dollar, particularly for accuracy, but all-around as well. You want a quality turnbolt (CZ, Savage, Stevens, Marlin, Remington, Winchester, Howa/Vanguard, Tikka, Browning, Sako, Steyr, Kimber, Icon, Cooper - whatever the budget can afford - you said you're on a real budget, so I'd take a close close look at<strong> Savages, T/C Venture, and Howas; maybe CZs or Tikkas</strong>, for a little more). Honestly, you are NOT going to beat with any sized stick, the <strong>T/C Venture </strong>under $500 with 5R rifling an a sub-1MOA *guarantee*. Not a "certification" that THEY supposedly did it, but a "guarantee" that YOU will do it. </p><p></p><p>The weight & barrel profile of the rifle will depend upon how far you're going to be carrying it - you said target shooting, so no reason not to get a heavy-ish rifle with a heavy barrel profile, and a longish barrel length (24" or more in a centerfire, 20" or more in rimfire). UNLESS you are going to practice from field positions (standing, kneeling, prone, etc.), and/or actually eventually carry it into the field, in which case you want a lighter rifle (under 7.5 or 8 lbs before adding scope & sling).</p><p></p><p></p><p>Chambering - I recommend starting with a rimfire - either a .22 or a .17 HMR, or one of each. Or, if you must start with a centerfire, I probably will recommend the venerable<strong> .223 Rem </strong>. However, <strong> .243 Win </strong>would also be an excellent choice, come to think of it, as would<strong> 6mm Benchrest</strong>. The .204 Ruger is also a very strong target rifle chambering out to 300, so it's a contender, but more expensive to shoot. Edit: Now I see you said .308 or .30-06 - gawdsakes, NO! You want a lighter recoiling gun, not to mention cheaper to shoot. I'd go with a maximum of .243 for ranges out to 300 yards. It <em>significantly outperforms </em>the .308 in exterior ballistics at those ranges, and is much much easier on the body and mind to shoot. Realistically, I'd say get a .223 Rem for out to 200 yards - OR get a .243 win, 6mm BR, or .204 Ruger for out to 300 yards. Preferably .243 Win or 6mm BR. The absolute max recoiler I'd choose for anything under 600, is the stellar-performing .260 rem. If you want to stand ready, wiling, and capable to go out to as far as 1,250 yards, then just get a 6.5mm-.284 or a 7mm (something like a 7mm WSM), and be done with it! You are really going to want a low-recoiler, to practice a lot and make it easier on the old shoulder.</p><p></p><p>I guess my recommendations for you for chambering, roughly in order, if you must try to get out to 200 yards and beyond fairly quickly are:</p><p></p><p>-.223 Rem</p><p>-.204 Ruger</p><p>-.243 Win</p><p>-6mm BR</p><p>-6mm Rem</p><p>-.22-250</p><p>-.257 Roberts</p><p>-.25-'06 Rem</p><p>-.260 Rem</p><p>-Maybe even the 6mm PPC, the most accurate round ever developed</p><p></p><p>.308 Win might crack the top 25, and .30-06 wouldn't crack the top 50 choices.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Keep asking lots of questions, both by posting and PMing me.</p><p></p><p>Bipod? Not only no, but hell no. Sling / Carry strap? No not really - you're shooting from the bench, right? If you are going to practice field positions, then a true sling like a ching sling can be helpful, and even a standard carry strap can help steady the rifle.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow, post: 1023906, member: 7123"] No, no, no, gawdsakes no. Mounting a scope and bore-sighting are quite simple, and the scopes that come with these packages, as well as the rings, are generally junk. The rig is only as strong as the weakest link, and you're setting yourself up for a weak link. Get moderate to high quality glass, and high quality rings, definitely. PM me for advice. Used is fine, yes, and is a better deal usually; to avoid getting gouged, you're just gonna have to educate, educate, educate yourself by reading a lot, and/or, at the time you spot a potential purchase, inspect it, take notes, then say "I'll get back to you", then go research it before buying. Mil-dot, schmil-dot, BDC, Schmee-dee-cee. Get a [U]good[/U] scope - AND rings/base scope - that's important. Gizmos are relatively unimportant. You can learn holdover just like our ancestors did. Unlike rifles, you CAN easily get a junk scope, so the research here is arguably even more important on the rifle. Nikons are great but their BDC is crap. If you must have a BDC, a regular one with hash marks, not circles, is preferred, but only actually helpful if matched to the chambering you are using. Your action type of course, will be a[B] turnbolt [/B]rifle. Maaaaybe a semi-auto like an AR15, but I wouldn't recommend it for a benchrest gun, and especially not on a limited budget. Turnbolt rifles represent the high-water mark of rifle value for your dollar, particularly for accuracy, but all-around as well. You want a quality turnbolt (CZ, Savage, Stevens, Marlin, Remington, Winchester, Howa/Vanguard, Tikka, Browning, Sako, Steyr, Kimber, Icon, Cooper - whatever the budget can afford - you said you're on a real budget, so I'd take a close close look at[B] Savages, T/C Venture, and Howas; maybe CZs or Tikkas[/B], for a little more). Honestly, you are NOT going to beat with any sized stick, the [B]T/C Venture [/B]under $500 with 5R rifling an a sub-1MOA *guarantee*. Not a "certification" that THEY supposedly did it, but a "guarantee" that YOU will do it. The weight & barrel profile of the rifle will depend upon how far you're going to be carrying it - you said target shooting, so no reason not to get a heavy-ish rifle with a heavy barrel profile, and a longish barrel length (24" or more in a centerfire, 20" or more in rimfire). UNLESS you are going to practice from field positions (standing, kneeling, prone, etc.), and/or actually eventually carry it into the field, in which case you want a lighter rifle (under 7.5 or 8 lbs before adding scope & sling). Chambering - I recommend starting with a rimfire - either a .22 or a .17 HMR, or one of each. Or, if you must start with a centerfire, I probably will recommend the venerable[B] .223 Rem [/B]. However, [B] .243 Win [/B]would also be an excellent choice, come to think of it, as would[B] 6mm Benchrest[/B]. The .204 Ruger is also a very strong target rifle chambering out to 300, so it's a contender, but more expensive to shoot. Edit: Now I see you said .308 or .30-06 - gawdsakes, NO! You want a lighter recoiling gun, not to mention cheaper to shoot. I'd go with a maximum of .243 for ranges out to 300 yards. It [I]significantly outperforms [/I]the .308 in exterior ballistics at those ranges, and is much much easier on the body and mind to shoot. Realistically, I'd say get a .223 Rem for out to 200 yards - OR get a .243 win, 6mm BR, or .204 Ruger for out to 300 yards. Preferably .243 Win or 6mm BR. The absolute max recoiler I'd choose for anything under 600, is the stellar-performing .260 rem. If you want to stand ready, wiling, and capable to go out to as far as 1,250 yards, then just get a 6.5mm-.284 or a 7mm (something like a 7mm WSM), and be done with it! You are really going to want a low-recoiler, to practice a lot and make it easier on the old shoulder. I guess my recommendations for you for chambering, roughly in order, if you must try to get out to 200 yards and beyond fairly quickly are: -.223 Rem -.204 Ruger -.243 Win -6mm BR -6mm Rem -.22-250 -.257 Roberts -.25-'06 Rem -.260 Rem -Maybe even the 6mm PPC, the most accurate round ever developed .308 Win might crack the top 25, and .30-06 wouldn't crack the top 50 choices. Keep asking lots of questions, both by posting and PMing me. Bipod? Not only no, but hell no. Sling / Carry strap? No not really - you're shooting from the bench, right? If you are going to practice field positions, then a true sling like a ching sling can be helpful, and even a standard carry strap can help steady the rifle. [/QUOTE]
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