I thought of something else you might find interesting. My husband, the JBT of the family, actually agrees with you. He says he doesn't worry about anyone who has told him they have their CCL because they have been through almost as many checks as he has. Says he has never disarmed a CCL holder.
I disagree vehemently with him.
Just because you are a CCL holder doesn't mean you can't be having a really, really bad day. Seemingly perfectly sane people can and do snap in an instant. For example the fella that killed his wife here in Bethany recently. They had been together forever. He had worked for the City of Bethany forever. Nice quiet unassuming couple. She came home and caught him looking at porn on the computer. I am not sure what happened after that but in the end she wound up strangled by him (and dead). It was just a little porn ... 
Go figure ...Awesome! She said "shepardize..."Haven't heard that one in a while!
What?!!? I am gonna be mad if you guys don't shepardize anymore ... man ... that's not fair ...
This is my general philosophy when confronted with a person with a CCL.
I have only disarmed four CCW holders and each time they had either shot someone or committed a felony.
The fact that they have a gun is somewhat irrelevent to me; if they have a gun and are behaving in a manner that indicates they should/must be disarmed, then their license is irrelevent to me.
Michael Brown
What?!!? I am gonna be mad if you guys don't shepardize anymore ... man ... that's not fair ...
All with the click of a button these days! MUHAHAHAHHA! Sure sucked with the books though.
Also, on the topic of a legitimate search for "legislative intent". I have performed this task and it truly sucked! I sat in the library and listed to nearly 10 hours of audio tapes of blowhard politicians talking giberish this and give me that!
Shepardize n. a method of locating reports of appeals decisions based on prior precedents from Shepard's Citations, books which list the volume and page number of published reports of every appeals court decision which cites a previously decided case or a statute. Shepard's exists for all sets of reports of appeals cases, and is updated every month with supplemental booklets. While it looks like a mathematician's book of tables, Shepard's Citations is an invaluable tool in finding appeals decisions which either follow, distinguish or deviate from prior case law.
Yeah I had to look it up.
Dakota tribal wisdom says that when you discover youre riding a dead horse, the best strategy is to dismount. However, in many firms, other strategies are attempted with dead horses, including:
1.Buying a stronger whip.
2.Changing riders.
3.Saying things like, this is the way we have always ridden dead horses.
4.Appointing a committee to study the horse.
5.Arranging to visit other sites to see how they ride dead horses there.
6.Increasing the standards to ride dead horses.
7.Appointing a stealth team to revive the dead horse.
8.Creating a training session to increase riding ability.
9.Comparing the state of dead horses in todays environment.
10.Changing the requirements. Declaring that this horse is not dead.
11.Hiring contractors to ride the dead horse (aka outsourcing)
12.Harnessing several dead horses together for increased speed.
13.Declaring that no horse is too dead to beat.
14.Providing additional funding to increase the horses performance.
15.Declaring that the horse is better, faster, cheaper dead.
16.Forming a kaizen event to find uses for dead horses.
17.Promoting the horse to a research position.
With that said I have no other valuable input for this thread.
Yeah I had to look it up.
Dakota tribal wisdom says that when you discover youre riding a dead horse, the best strategy is to dismount. However, in many firms, other strategies are attempted with dead horses, including:
1.Buying a stronger whip.
2.Changing riders.
3.Saying things like, this is the way we have always ridden dead horses.
4.Appointing a committee to study the horse.
5.Arranging to visit other sites to see how they ride dead horses there.
6.Increasing the standards to ride dead horses.
7.Appointing a stealth team to revive the dead horse.
8.Creating a training session to increase riding ability.
9.Comparing the state of dead horses in todays environment.
10.Changing the requirements. Declaring that this horse is not dead.
11.Hiring contractors to ride the dead horse (aka outsourcing)
12.Harnessing several dead horses together for increased speed.
13.Declaring that no horse is too dead to beat.
14.Providing additional funding to increase the horses performance.
15.Declaring that the horse is better, faster, cheaper dead.
16.Forming a kaizen event to find uses for dead horses.
17.Promoting the horse to a research position.
With that said I have no other valuable input for this thread.
I have only been pulled over 4 times in the last 6 years with my CCL. Not once did the officer ask to see the weapon, only where the weapon was and to not reach for it.
The only time I had to possibly use my weapon the OHP knew about the incident. OHP was cool with it, asked to see my license and left it at that. It was the Shawnee tribal officer that went gung ho and tried to rip my jacket off to reach for the weapon. The OHP had to intervene to get her to slow down as I was not in the wrong nor was I the aggressor in the reason they were on site.
The only time I had to possibly use my weapon the OHP knew about the incident. OHP was cool with it, asked to see my license and left it at that. It was the Shawnee tribal officer that went gung ho and tried to rip my jacket off to reach for the weapon. The OHP had to intervene to get her to slow down as I was not in the wrong nor was I the aggressor in the reason they were on site.
I'm an LEO of over 21 years, and the last thing I want to happen on a contact is for the contact or I to unneccesarily handle a weapon. The safest place for it is in your holster. I figure that scumbags are just going to put a gun in their waistband and go, as opposed to going through the process of obtaining an SDA. I usually just ask, "WITHOUT REACHING FOR IT, tell me, where it is." That's really all I want to know. I then tell them not to reach for anything while I return to my car to run a check, and that's it. Otherwise standard.
Years ago, when the state legislature passed the SDA, one of our officers was heard to say, "GREAT! Now we'll have to wonder on every stop if the person is carrying a gun!" Well duh, you'd better be wondering that regardless. In Oklahoma, I think you'll find most officers are very pro RKBA.
Years ago, when the state legislature passed the SDA, one of our officers was heard to say, "GREAT! Now we'll have to wonder on every stop if the person is carrying a gun!" Well duh, you'd better be wondering that regardless. In Oklahoma, I think you'll find most officers are very pro RKBA.
Dadgum that's funny!
Also, so proud of you Dan for looking up Shepardize!
It used to be truly painful. Imagine a citation or quote from one book that leads to on a search for another page from another book and this continues ad naseum until you want to pull out your hair from reading inane crap! AHHHH...Dadgum that's funny!
Also, so proud of you Dan for looking up Shepardize!
Shepardizing and listening to session tapes (and going through pages and pages of bank account records tracing money) used to be my life. No wonder I am the way I am now! Dadgum lawyers ... My very first legal job was with a firm who defended one of the members of the board of directors of Duncan Savings and Loan. You should have seen my face when the RTC "dropped off" their response to our first round of discovery. An entire conference room floor to ceiling of boxes full of paper ... stacked in AISLES!!!!! 
Then they told me I was gonna "get" to be the one to go through it! 
Lucky me ... Ahhh, those were the days ... LOL
Dan ... You did good ... That is pretty funny!! If you know a lawyer, you can certainly appreciate the tribe's take, huh??
Uhmmmmmmmmm ... what was this thread about, anyway??
Oh, yeah ... bottom line is if you don't do anything to draw attention to yourself then you probably won't get pulled over and none of this other bad stuff will happen to you.
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