so that shooting/stabbing yesterday in moore... isis attack?

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soonerwings

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The suspect has asked for a Muslim Attorney. The DA has said its workplace violence. As I've said all along, its terrorism.

The guy had a hit list and the few targets were employees of a food company. He had access to the building, and could have easily planted a bomb or worn a suicide vest. Murder? Sure. Heinous murder with religious motivation? Sure. Terrorism? I doubt it. I think that word is over used.
 

Glocktogo

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The guy had a hit list and the few targets were employees of a food company. He had access to the building, and could have easily planted a bomb or worn a suicide vest. Murder? Sure. Heinous murder with religious motivation? Sure. Terrorism? I doubt it. I think that word is over used.

Why would you doubt it when background evidence hasn't been released yet? We don't know who he was in contact with or what the communications (if any) detailed.
 

soonerwings

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Why would you doubt it when background evidence hasn't been released yet? We don't know who he was in contact with or what the communications (if any) detailed.

Reasons I doubt it was terrorism:
1. A hit list implies SPECIFIC targets. I doubt that there are very many employees of Vaughn Foods that are on the radar of terrorist organizations.
2. Terrorism is a means for terrifying a populace and sending a message. The guy had every opportunity to wreak massive damage on the place and didn't.
3. If the feds actually thought it was terrorism, they'd be all over it like stink on crap. There's no army of feds descending on the place.
 

Glocktogo

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Reasons I doubt it was terrorism:
1. A hit list implies SPECIFIC targets. I doubt that there are very many employees of Vaughn Foods that are on the radar of terrorist organizations.
2. Terrorism is a means for terrifying a populace and sending a message. The guy had every opportunity to wreak massive damage on the place and didn't.
3. If the feds actually thought it was terrorism, they'd be all over it like stink on crap. There's no army of feds descending on the place.

If you think terrorism requires a high profile target like the twin towers, you don't understand the nature of terrorism in all it's permutations.

You don't think a beheading sends a message? Seriously???

How do you know how many feds are investigating? Are you part of the investigation?

If there's no evidence, why should he believe a conclusion that hasn't been supported?

First, I didn't ask him to do that. Second, you don't understand the nature of a terrorism investigation. There is SIGNIFICANT RAS to support exporing that possibility. The public aspect of it is so significant, it should demand evidence to support excluding terrorism as a motive. Simply saying "This was nothing more than workplace violence, move along..." is not in the best interests of justice or the public good.

Now there are plenty of reasons to dismiss this out of hand as not a terrorist act. The powers that be may feel it's in the best interests of the economy, to calm the public at large, to prevent vigilantiism and retaliatory attacks, you name it. None of those justifications takes the truth into account.

I want the real truth. I want the public to KNOW the answers. The only way that will happen is if political influence doesn't taint the investigation and subsequent trial. The jury is still out on that one.

Because, Muslims.

No, because extremist Muslims. Don't generalize. You don't like it when the shoe is on the other foot, so don't do it yourself. :(
 

soonerwings

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If you think terrorism requires a high profile target like the twin towers, you don't understand the nature of terrorism in all it's permutations.

You don't think a beheading sends a message? Seriously???

How do you know how many feds are investigating? Are you part of the investigation?

. . . .

No, because extremist Muslims. Don't generalize. You don't like it when the shoe is on the other foot, so don't do it yourself. :(

Let's take a look at what the FBI has to say about terrorism:

Definitions of Terrorism in the U.S. Code

18 U.S.C. § 2331 defines "international terrorism" and "domestic terrorism" for purposes of Chapter 113B of the Code, entitled "Terrorism”:

"International terrorism" means activities with the following three characteristics:
■Involve violent acts or acts dangerous to human life that violate federal or state law;
■Appear to be intended (i) to intimidate or coerce a civilian population; (ii) to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion; or (iii) to affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination, or kidnapping; and
■Occur primarily outside the territorial jurisdiction of the U.S., or transcend national boundaries in terms of the means by which they are accomplished, the persons they appear intended to intimidate or coerce, or the locale in which their perpetrators operate or seek asylum.*

"Domestic terrorism" means activities with the following three characteristics:
■Involve acts dangerous to human life that violate federal or state law;
■Appear intended (i) to intimidate or coerce a civilian population; (ii) to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion; or (iii) to affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination. or kidnapping; and
■Occur primarily within the territorial jurisdiction of the U.S.

18 U.S.C. § 2332b defines the term "federal crime of terrorism" as an offense that:
■Is calculated to influence or affect the conduct of government by intimidation or coercion, or to retaliate against government conduct; and
■Is a violation of one of several listed statutes, including § 930(c) (relating to killing or attempted killing during an attack on a federal facility with a dangerous weapon); and § 1114 (relating to killing or attempted killing of officers and employees of the U.S.).

Terrorism is attempting to bring about change by spreading TERROR. Do you see anything done by this guy to terrorize a population? I don't. The guy could have burned/bombed the place or worse, contaminated the food that they distribute and impacted a huge number of people. Do you see his motives as attempting to alter the behavior of the government? I don't. I see his motives as wanting to take revenge on a white infidel woman that got him suspended/terminated.

Does a severed head send a message? Sure it does. It sends a message that he's a religioius radical whack job and a sicko. Not all religious radical whack jobs or sickos are terrorists.

Is he a radical muslim? Sure. Did he kill in a method consistent with radical islam? Sure. Does that make his actions terrorism? No.
 

Glocktogo

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Distilled:

"Domestic terrorism" means activities with the following three characteristics:
■Involve acts dangerous to human life that violate federal or state law;
■Appear intended (i) to intimidate or coerce a civilian population;
■Occur primarily within the territorial jurisdiction of the U.S.

If you think detonating a bomb is required to intimidate the civilian population, you don't understand the psychological ramifications of a beheading. :(
 

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