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The Water Cooler
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TCSO: Deputy shouldn't be charged because he confused his weapons (video)
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<blockquote data-quote="Quick_Draw_McGraw" data-source="post: 2734324" data-attributes="member: 3286"><p>So I read the Tulsa World Article</p><p></p><p><a href="http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/crimewatch/video-of-fatal-shooting-by-reserve-deputy-shown-at-sheriff/article_9d77cce0-75e6-5ddf-a782-cf048ad4064b.html?mode=story" target="_blank">http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/crimewatch/video-of-fatal-shooting-by-reserve-deputy-shown-at-sheriff/article_9d77cce0-75e6-5ddf-a782-cf048ad4064b.html?mode=story</a></p><p></p><p>Here are the things that jump right out at me.</p><p></p><p>Bates exited the vehicle, with a weapon in each hand. What on earth for? You can't accurately work any weapon one handed. A pepper ball gun is in his left hand, which is obviously not his dominant hand for shooting, so why would you be carrying a weapon in your non dominant hand?. He also has a gun in his right hand. His gun shouldn't be drawn if he's not capable of controlling it with both hands.</p><p></p><p>He's in plain clothes. On the surface that doesn't seem like a big deal, except for the fact that it leads one to consider that he may not have been wearing a gun belt. If he isn't wearing a gun belt then there is no telling how his gear is setup. Did he even have an external holster for that gun? Might explain why he ran out with a weapon in each hand. Also if it's not a duty belt then things may not be in the same place. Officers train with their equipment in the same place specifically so they have muscle memory under stress, so your gun is always the same motion. If he thought he had holstered his gun and drawn his taser, it leads me to believe that he was used to carrying them side by side, both setup for drawing with the dominant hand? I'm not LEO, but I've usually observed if LEO does have a gun and a taser on the same side it's usually setup in a cross draw pattern, meaning that the tazer faces the wrong direction for you to pull it out with you dominant hand, you have to draw it out with your non dominant hand, reaching across your body to get it. </p><p></p><p>A revolver like he has is not police issue. Most police forces don't issue revolvers, and if they do they sure aren't little .38s like that. Snub nosed pistols are horrible to aim with, and are extremely inaccurate. They are meant as self defense weapons to be used in close range, usually under 10 ft. No one has any business using that in police duties because if you were called into ever needing to use it, your a danger if you try to engage a bad guy out past 10 feet. Correct me if I'm wrong but a reserve TPD officer has to carry a department issued gun. You don't just get to "bring your favorite gun to work" like you apparently can as a reserve Sheriffs officer.</p><p></p><p>So back to him having two weapons out when this started. So what happened to the pepper ball gun? Did he lay it on the ground? Did he attempt (think) that he was going to holster his gun with one hand, and then unholster his tazer with the same hand while holding the pepper ball gun? Did he intend to shoot his tazer one handed? I mean tons of bad things happen if you are only using one hand.</p><p></p><p>I just see so many things this guy was doing wrong. I get that mistakes happen, and I get lack of training, but seriously so many errors right out of the gate on this one. If you make THAT MANY mistakes, then you probably have been making mistakes for a while. This guy had to be an obvious liability before this.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Quick_Draw_McGraw, post: 2734324, member: 3286"] So I read the Tulsa World Article [URL="http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/crimewatch/video-of-fatal-shooting-by-reserve-deputy-shown-at-sheriff/article_9d77cce0-75e6-5ddf-a782-cf048ad4064b.html?mode=story"]http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/crimewatch/video-of-fatal-shooting-by-reserve-deputy-shown-at-sheriff/article_9d77cce0-75e6-5ddf-a782-cf048ad4064b.html?mode=story[/URL] Here are the things that jump right out at me. Bates exited the vehicle, with a weapon in each hand. What on earth for? You can't accurately work any weapon one handed. A pepper ball gun is in his left hand, which is obviously not his dominant hand for shooting, so why would you be carrying a weapon in your non dominant hand?. He also has a gun in his right hand. His gun shouldn't be drawn if he's not capable of controlling it with both hands. He's in plain clothes. On the surface that doesn't seem like a big deal, except for the fact that it leads one to consider that he may not have been wearing a gun belt. If he isn't wearing a gun belt then there is no telling how his gear is setup. Did he even have an external holster for that gun? Might explain why he ran out with a weapon in each hand. Also if it's not a duty belt then things may not be in the same place. Officers train with their equipment in the same place specifically so they have muscle memory under stress, so your gun is always the same motion. If he thought he had holstered his gun and drawn his taser, it leads me to believe that he was used to carrying them side by side, both setup for drawing with the dominant hand? I'm not LEO, but I've usually observed if LEO does have a gun and a taser on the same side it's usually setup in a cross draw pattern, meaning that the tazer faces the wrong direction for you to pull it out with you dominant hand, you have to draw it out with your non dominant hand, reaching across your body to get it. A revolver like he has is not police issue. Most police forces don't issue revolvers, and if they do they sure aren't little .38s like that. Snub nosed pistols are horrible to aim with, and are extremely inaccurate. They are meant as self defense weapons to be used in close range, usually under 10 ft. No one has any business using that in police duties because if you were called into ever needing to use it, your a danger if you try to engage a bad guy out past 10 feet. Correct me if I'm wrong but a reserve TPD officer has to carry a department issued gun. You don't just get to "bring your favorite gun to work" like you apparently can as a reserve Sheriffs officer. So back to him having two weapons out when this started. So what happened to the pepper ball gun? Did he lay it on the ground? Did he attempt (think) that he was going to holster his gun with one hand, and then unholster his tazer with the same hand while holding the pepper ball gun? Did he intend to shoot his tazer one handed? I mean tons of bad things happen if you are only using one hand. I just see so many things this guy was doing wrong. I get that mistakes happen, and I get lack of training, but seriously so many errors right out of the gate on this one. If you make THAT MANY mistakes, then you probably have been making mistakes for a while. This guy had to be an obvious liability before this. [/QUOTE]
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