Teachers strike

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Annie

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Yaa, I was married to that one, but just recently got a divorce. Now I'm engaged to another and once her divorce is final too we're doing it again this summer. And she hates critters worse than the last one. Shes gonna be #4 and I think at 48 I'm pretty much done. Maybe...:)

Boy, not me. If I outlive this one I'm gonna stay footloose and fancy-free until they stick me in a box and lower me into the ground. You guys are a pain in the ass ... :bighug:
 

Okie4570

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Right now shes at a middle school with 24 years in and 4 away from retirement so shes at the top tier with her education. But, after taxes, insurance, etc, shes lucky to be able to afford a small apartment in the area the school is in, its beyond believable how expensive it is here. I lived in San Francisco and the bay area from 88-98 and we got our ass handed to us in rent then even worse in mortgages, especially living in Sunnyvale (Silicon Valley), that's why I moved up to Bear Valley. I thought it was the highest place to live on the planet. Nooop. New Hampshire is pricey as living F. Right now we're paying over 3gs a month in rent in a 3bdrm condo while working on transitioning into our own condo down in the Nashua area so I'm closer to my work in Boston. I'm going to maybe be working PT at Sig Sauer in CS this spring if all goes well over in Dover. We could have found a cheaper place if it had been me looking but she was born on Marthas Vineyard and has a higher sense of what she thinks is safe. Mind you its a constitutional carry state too and we both CC so I feel pretty safe anywhere, still, she likes the nicer things in life. Go figure.

We vacationed some through that area this last summer in New England. Enjoyed it but like you said it's an eye opener when it comes to cost of living. Good to see you posting again by the way :)
 

John6185

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It used to be but I don't know in recent years, teachers received a salary for nine months and had three months without pay or, they could receive a salary year-round but it would be reduced because they were being paid while school was out for the summer. Now, who knows?
 

Billybob

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Oklahoma has some real big problems with accounting and balancing budgets. I think RATS GOT IN THE PANTRY and packed off a lot of the cereal!

For years they have been trying to track down about $13 Million that went to into the State Health Dept. Budget; now they believe that the State Police Retirement Fund was embezzled, and what’s next? The arbitrary choice to effectively shake down teachers over the years while repeatedly giving other State Employees raises, is inexcusable. The firing of hundreds of Nurses and staff from the Health Dept. to try to offset normal expenses that can’t be paid because of mishandled of funds is deplorable as well.
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Unless you're talking about a prior scandal the number is $30 Mil.. It's been reported that fraudulent audits and accounting were used to cover the fact that the funds were spent on "programs" not covered by or included in the Health Department's business. Whatever the money was spent on has not been revealed.
And it turns out it was Fed money(Ryan White Fund) so the FBI got involved like with the schools. As soon as that happened the legislature suddenly came up with money, (maybe to pay back the Feds money, maybe to keep them out and protect some from fed charges?) The Grand Jury is on it now but if it's like 2001 when "ghost employees" were being paid or like the school embezzlement cases most charges if any will result in light sentences or probation.

Health Department Records Show Allegations of Deliberate Deception
http://oklahomawatch.org/2017/12/15...rds-show-allegations-of-deliberate-deception/

"State audits dating back to 2015 show the agency was using federal money to pay for things that aren't covered by government funding."
http://www.newson6.com/story/36825861/state-health-department-audit-shows-misuse-of-funds

“These actions were taking place in order for the agency to pursue various and costly programs beyond the agency's core public health initiatives,”
http://newsok.com/accounting-tricks...oma-health-department-deficit/article/5571052

https://www.rawstory.com/2017/12/fb...ing-funds-from-oklahoma-department-of-health/

As for your "What's next" question, yes the Police Pension Fund is under investigation and just yesterday this hit...

Fired office manager blamed for alleged misappropriations
"An independent investigative audit of an Oklahoma circuit engineering district has identified suspected misappropriated funds totaling more than $246,000."
http://newsok.com/article/5586428?utm_source=NewsOK.com&utm_medium=Social&utm_campaign=NIC-Facebook
 

Billybob

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In a way I was trying to be a smart a $$, but mostly confused.
Since your seem to be in the know, can you answer some questions that would help shed some light.

Background for my ire.
The other night I was watching the news (which I religiously never do) and the NEA President said that they were proposing a production tax of 7-8%. Then later in the broadcast another person interviewed said raise the income tax by .5%-1%. This was the basis for my earlier comments.

Now for the questions...
1) How many teachers are there in Oklahoma?
2) Of the xxx teachers, which group will be receiving a "raise"? (All, certified, alternative certified, temporary, substitute)
3) If the district already pays above the base teacher rate, will this group also receive the dictated raise or the difference or TBD?
4) Are there any exemptions for any teachers who might get a raise, but will or should not?
5) After the above are answered, then we can figure how much $$$ are necessary to provide for the increase.

My thought of revenue generation (not what I want but what they may do) for this...
1) Production tax increase
2) Tobacco tax increase (sin tax)
3) Capital gain tax increase (stock, bond, property/business sale profits)
4) Income tax increase
(#3&4 will be a very hard sell. These are already higher than some bordering states and could hurt new business relocation, which hurt growing the overall economy and may turn off some of the newly announced moves. #1 will hurt the oil and gas production industry that is already not doing well (Chesapeake, Devon and Sandridge are a few that have recently laid off hundreds. An increase in the production tax may lay off hundreds more and close some businesses (hence my comment earlier about Wishire street in OKC being mostly for rent). Others with marginal profit wells will turn off the spigot.). #2 is the easiest, but a $50 pack of smokes will literally put a lot of poor people in the street that seems to becoming more populated judging by the street corners in OKC.

If you can't tell, I'm a numbers cruncher in a past life. 1+1=2 not 3,4,5 as the .gov seems to advance. When the tobacco tax was passed last time, the revenue numbers they were expecting did not add. I went to the state site and referenced all the numbers, figured the new tax based on current tax generation, packs sold, at that time, and calculated they were off by more than half. But it was sold to the public, even though basic arithmetic could see the folly. If the teachers want a sustainable pay increase, the increase should be based on a substantiated outcome of tax generation. Otherwise it's a fart in the wind, back in a few years for another wiff.

Since you're a numbers cruncher here's something to consider when asking how it will be paid for...

Teachers union demands $10K raises, increased funding for education, state agencies
"The pay raises for teachers and support professionals would cost $740 million over three years. In all, the union's plan would cost nearly $1.5 billion."
http://okcfox.com/news/local/state-...wn-hall-after-releasing-demands-for-lawmakers
 

Billybob

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You are not helping Jack. Anyone who walks off a job to benefit themselves at the cost of the children and false pretenses, a job they were free to pick, and were not forced to take do not deserve it. They are expendable and need to be replaced.

When ALL and I mean ALL of the previous taxes that were levied UNDER FALSE PRETENSES to fund our failure of public education are used as they were slated when voted on then we can start talking. No one more fecking dime. This robing Peter to pay Paul BS needs to end

I don't mind taxes long as there are results. They are necessary but our state is a poor state. So what the heck, let's raise taxes. Like that ever works. What do you call doing something over and over expecting a different outcome? Insanity, socialism or Liberalism?

America spends more than any other country. Several countries combined. Yet public education here in the good ol USA ranks 17th in the world. Throwing more money at 17th or our state does not seem to be the answer. What are the other countries doing that we are not and spending far less? Maybe we should hire teachers from some of these other countries. The ones we have now are failing the children and the country.

More money does not equate to caring. If the teachers want more money they need to get some side jobs. Just like firefighters, police or other state workers do. Sort of like how anybody else that wants more money does. Most people just don't hold hostages. Plain and simple. Quit holding the children hostage and pretending that it is about the kiddies and not them

"The United States spends more than other developed nations on its students' education each year..."
"Despite the spending, U.S. students still trail their rivals on international tests."
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/us-education-spending-tops-global-list-study-shows/

America spends more than $600 billion on schools. Here's where it goes and why it matters.
"When compared with teachers in other countries, American teachers are generally well-paid: they make more at all points in their career than the average for teachers in the OECD. But teaching isn't a particularly well-paid profession anywhere. In all OECD countries, teachers make less than the average person with a bachelor's degree."
https://www.vox.com/2015/3/25/8284637/school-spending-US
 
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C_Hallbert

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Unless you're talking about a prior scandal the number is $30 Mil.. It's been reported that fraudulent audits and accounting were used to cover the fact that the funds were spent on "programs" not covered by or included in the Health Department's business. Whatever the money was spent on has not been revealed.
And it turns out it was Fed money(Ryan White Fund) so the FBI got involved like with the schools. As soon as that happened the legislature suddenly came up with money, (maybe to pay back the Feds money, maybe to keep them out and protect some from fed charges?) The Grand Jury is on it now but if it's like 2001 when "ghost employees" were being paid or like the school embezzlement cases most charges if any will result in light sentences or probation.

Health Department Records Show Allegations of Deliberate Deception
http://oklahomawatch.org/2017/12/15...rds-show-allegations-of-deliberate-deception/

"State audits dating back to 2015 show the agency was using federal money to pay for things that aren't covered by government funding."
http://www.newson6.com/story/36825861/state-health-department-audit-shows-misuse-of-funds

“These actions were taking place in order for the agency to pursue various and costly programs beyond the agency's core public health initiatives,”
http://newsok.com/accounting-tricks...oma-health-department-deficit/article/5571052

https://www.rawstory.com/2017/12/fb...ing-funds-from-oklahoma-department-of-health/

As for your "What's next" question, yes the Police Pension Fund is under investigation and just yesterday this hit...

Fired office manager blamed for alleged misappropriations
"An independent investigative audit of an Oklahoma circuit engineering district has identified suspected misappropriated funds totaling more than $246,000."
http://newsok.com/article/5586428?utm_source=NewsOK.com&utm_medium=Social&utm_campaign=NIC-Facebook

Nice job on your research. We have friends who are RNs who were laid off from the Health Department because of the Budgeting Short Fall. The misappropriation of funding looks to me like malfeasance and related conspiracy looks like official misconduct. With so much turbulence in the accounting processes, I will not be surprised if a lot of money was embezzled. There should be serious jail time ahead for everyone involved.


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Billybob

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Nice job on your research. We have friends who are RNs who were laid off from the Health Department because of the Budgeting Short Fall. The misappropriation of funding looks to me like malfeasance and related conspiracy looks like official misconduct. With so much turbulence in the accounting processes, I will not be surprised if a lot of money was embezzled. There should be serious jail time ahead for everyone involved.
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Thanks. The GJ results should be interesting, several people jumped ship right when this hit so they had to know what was up. What will be more interesting is if we finally find out what programs were important enough to rob the people for, have to wonder if it might turn out to be something political/ideological.
 

dennishoddy

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"Despite the spending, U.S. students still trail their rivals on international tests."
That's because we can't take the rowdy students that disrupt the class into the hallway and whack their ass with a 24" paddle.
My history teacher kept his hanging by the classroom door in full sight of the class, and he wasn't afraid to use it.
Trust me on this. He had holes drilled in it to allow the air to pass for a faster swing.
That sumbitch hurt.
 

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