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<blockquote data-quote="Shadowrider" data-source="post: 3053041" data-attributes="member: 3099"><p>These are my sentiments exactly.&nbsp; There have been advances that have brought the 9mm very far, this is true.&nbsp; But I have to roll my eyes when they say that there is no difference between 9mm, .40, .357Sig, or .45ACP.&nbsp; I mean really?&nbsp; Just because they all perform about the same in a gel block?&nbsp; They see that a +P 9mm Gold Dot and 230 JHP .45 is about identical in energy and go about the same into the gel.&nbsp; And then they proceed to just write off the 150lbs or 180lbs of extra energy you get from .357Sig or .357 Mag as meaningless since penetration into gel is also about the same.&nbsp; It&#039;s illogical.&nbsp; That extra energy does stuff and gel blocks don&#039;t illustrate it.&nbsp; It&#039;s also kinda funny that today the old standby .357 SJHP load that excelled for about 80 years in 4&quot; service revolvers carried by LEOs everywhere isn&#039;t very consistent at barrier penetration.&nbsp; They used to build car doors and windshields a lot heavier than they do now.&nbsp; They worked pretty well back then, but now?&nbsp; Not so much...&nbsp; <img src="/images/smilies/rolleyes.png"&nbsp; class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":rolleyes:" title="Roll Eyes (Sarcastic)&nbsp; &nbsp; :rolleyes:" data-shortname=":rolleyes:" /></p></blockquote><p></p>

[QUOTE="Shadowrider, post: 3053041, member: 3099"] These are my sentiments exactly. There have been advances that have brought the 9mm very far, this is true. But I have to roll my eyes when they say that there is no difference between 9mm, .40, .357Sig, or .45ACP. I mean really? Just because they all perform about the same in a gel block? They see that a +P 9mm Gold Dot and 230 JHP .45 is about identical in energy and go about the same into the gel. And then they proceed to just write off the 150lbs or 180lbs of extra energy you get from .357Sig or .357 Mag as meaningless since penetration into gel is also about the same. It's illogical. That extra energy does stuff and gel blocks don't illustrate it. It's also kinda funny that today the old standby .357 SJHP load that excelled for about 80 years in 4" service revolvers carried by LEOs everywhere isn't very consistent at barrier penetration. They used to build car doors and windshields a lot heavier than they do now. They worked pretty well back then, but now? Not so much... :rolleyes: [/QUOTE]

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