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Message: <blockquote data-quote="NVRGR" data-source="post: 3859594" data-attributes="member: 50370">Thanks,  I recall a Southwest Shooters Supply from years back, they were a distributor  as I recall. :-) I was thinking more of custom rifle builders.The Mashburn I was thinking of, was similar to  PO Ackley, out of Utah,  Weatherby, and Gibbs, along with others, with several classic rifle cartridges, and an improved shoulder.     I have never been convinced of any magic shoulder angle, but that when ya burn more powder, the bullet goes faster. I would hate to guess, how many ground squirrels, I have shot in NV alfalfa fields, with a 17 Ackley Bee, as well as a couple other small case rounds. A few thousand at least over the decades.    I built a 20 Ackley Bee. Only shot it a couple seasons so far, but it might shade the wind a bit better than the 17...the jury is still out.   Most guys worry about flat trajectory, I am here to submit, wind has saved more ground squirrels lives, than distance. But I find, the 17 does a LOT better in the wind, than most of the   armchair experts give it credit for. And in the high desert, wind can hit 35 knots real easy, once the sun starts heating the fields. A guy does good, to hit 25% of the small coke bottle size critters, much past 100, in that kind of breeze and mirage.   The best thing about a 17 Ackley Bee, the 20 as well, ya get to watch the pieces bounce about 10 foot up, with a low hit.</blockquote>