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The Range
Law & Order
Video: Citizen is detained for open carry.
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<blockquote data-quote="henschman" data-source="post: 1830382" data-attributes="member: 4235"><p>I disagree with those of you who said the individual who made this video was an asshat or a jackhole or whatnot. I agree he was probably intending that this type of contact would happen with police. However, as was said in the video, illegal searches and seizures of the sort he was subjected to are unfortunately common. This being the case, folks who make videos like this are exactly what are needed to spread the word that carrying a gun is not illegal in the jurisdiction in question, which serves to educate all citizens, cops included, that purely carrying a gun is neither reasonable suspicion nor probable cause of a crime being committed, and legally, cannot by itself be the basis for a stop or the seizure of a gun (and that it is idiotic to call the cops every time you see a guy walking around with a gun on his hip). But as Michael Brown pointed out, it is also important to keep in mind that there are other factors that, either independently or in addition to the presence of a gun, could cause one or both of these legal standards to be met. The fact is that the armed individual may not always know all these reasons, and therefore may not have all the information available to him at the scene to tell whether the stop or the seizure is legal. That is one reason why it is generally not a good idea to refuse to surrender firearms when it is demanded by a cop (the guy in the video apparently complied). If you think it was done illegally, it is best addressed afterwards up the chain of command in the Department, or with a Section 1983 suit for violations of your civil rights. </p><p></p><p>I also do not believe that the fellow who made the video was being argumentative. He was being firm, but I believe he was actually polite in many instances, thanking the officer more than once. The cop was being rather firm in his manner as well, as they tend to do, and I do not believe it is rude or offensive to respond in the same manner. </p><p></p><p>Obviously it is true that videos are rarely posted when everything goes legally and correctly during police/citizen interaction, and that should certainly be taken into account when viewing videos, so as not to irrationally generalize all cops. However, the current situation is certainly preferable to the pre-pocket video days, when videos of police encounters were few and far between and neither the good NOR the bad encounters tended to be reported. That said, I think there were a lot of positives in this video as well. For one, the cop was actually fairly polite. And though there was an initial illegal stop and seizure, the fact is that the situation was quickly resolved AT THE SCENE, when the supervisor showed up. Kudos to the supervisor for knowing when to "choose his battles." In the end, nobody got hurt and everybody learned something (I hope). Not a bad deal at all.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="henschman, post: 1830382, member: 4235"] I disagree with those of you who said the individual who made this video was an asshat or a jackhole or whatnot. I agree he was probably intending that this type of contact would happen with police. However, as was said in the video, illegal searches and seizures of the sort he was subjected to are unfortunately common. This being the case, folks who make videos like this are exactly what are needed to spread the word that carrying a gun is not illegal in the jurisdiction in question, which serves to educate all citizens, cops included, that purely carrying a gun is neither reasonable suspicion nor probable cause of a crime being committed, and legally, cannot by itself be the basis for a stop or the seizure of a gun (and that it is idiotic to call the cops every time you see a guy walking around with a gun on his hip). But as Michael Brown pointed out, it is also important to keep in mind that there are other factors that, either independently or in addition to the presence of a gun, could cause one or both of these legal standards to be met. The fact is that the armed individual may not always know all these reasons, and therefore may not have all the information available to him at the scene to tell whether the stop or the seizure is legal. That is one reason why it is generally not a good idea to refuse to surrender firearms when it is demanded by a cop (the guy in the video apparently complied). If you think it was done illegally, it is best addressed afterwards up the chain of command in the Department, or with a Section 1983 suit for violations of your civil rights. I also do not believe that the fellow who made the video was being argumentative. He was being firm, but I believe he was actually polite in many instances, thanking the officer more than once. The cop was being rather firm in his manner as well, as they tend to do, and I do not believe it is rude or offensive to respond in the same manner. Obviously it is true that videos are rarely posted when everything goes legally and correctly during police/citizen interaction, and that should certainly be taken into account when viewing videos, so as not to irrationally generalize all cops. However, the current situation is certainly preferable to the pre-pocket video days, when videos of police encounters were few and far between and neither the good NOR the bad encounters tended to be reported. That said, I think there were a lot of positives in this video as well. For one, the cop was actually fairly polite. And though there was an initial illegal stop and seizure, the fact is that the situation was quickly resolved AT THE SCENE, when the supervisor showed up. Kudos to the supervisor for knowing when to "choose his battles." In the end, nobody got hurt and everybody learned something (I hope). Not a bad deal at all. [/QUOTE]
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