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Message: <blockquote data-quote="bigfug" data-source="post: 4251540" data-attributes="member: 4864">I agree, he made himself the aggressor, so the assumption of self defense is not valid as the presumption is overturned by evidence. And yes, SYG is not a catch all. Every SDA instructor should be emphasizing the point that the deployment of a weapon is a last resort, and you should never inject yourself into a situation that doesnt involve you (or family member, friend, acquantince, etc) unless absolutely necessary because you dont know the circumstances. Two instances in point that come to mind. OCPD responded to a shots fired call around the corner from my office. They arrive on scene to a man in the street with a gun, take him down at gun point. Guy was a convenience store owner who was just robbed and chased the hold up man out of the store firing gun shots. So they caught the victim, but were operating with what they knew, shots fired, man with a gun. No one had called the robbery in at that point. Another one is a guy held a man at gun point who was involved in a physical altercation with a female. Turns out the female had a VPO placed against her by the man, her ex, and she was hell-bent on killing him, if she couldnt have him, no one could.</blockquote>