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The Range
Rifle & Shotgun Discussion
Westley Richards hammer fired 16ga SxS
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<blockquote data-quote="Ahall" data-source="post: 4366568" data-attributes="member: 49426"><p>Great, now I need to buy some more books. Thanks D.</p><p></p><p></p><p>The proof marks were all in use during Double D's production dates of 1878 to 1894.</p><p>All the proofs are from Birmingham, which also corelates to Double D's reference.</p><p></p><p>The "Choke" stamp came was use around 1887 so:</p><p>The gun dates should date from 1887 to 1894.</p><p></p><p>Nitrocellulose based powders were just starting to enter the market when this gun was produced.</p><p>The proof tables I found don't show any English nitro proof marks for guns of that era. The nitro proofs show up around 1896. So, we should conclude the barrels were not engineered, manufactured, or proved for smokeless powder.</p><p></p><p>WW Greeners book, and others from the era discuss the dangers of shooting nitro powder the older guns and the potentially catastrophic results. The articles were about top end guns, and the changes in shell geometry we discussed earlier did not exist yet. The black powder era guns were simply proved at lower pressures. When the nitrocellulose-based shells hit the market, some older guns could take more, and others ruptured. Granted, the smokeless powders of that era were a bit less predictable and less stable than what we use today, but they still had issues with black powder proved guns blowing up with smokeless loads, and this gun was not reproved for smokeless ammo.</p><p>Bottom line is it was never intended for today's ammo.</p><p></p><p>Also, it has appears to have a "false" dolls head engraved at the top of the standing breach. The retailer may have wanted the gun to appear to have dolls head for marketing reasons but not wanted the extra manufacturing cost. </p><p></p><p>Burmingham trade gun with a more prestigious London address on the barrel. </p><p>A name on the barrel stamp easily mistaken for a more prominent maker, </p><p>Engraving to mimic higher cost features. </p><p>Are we seeing a pattern? </p><p></p><p>It was probably sound in its day with the loads it was intended for, but </p><p>I would not advise shooting it today.</p><p></p><p>The other marks</p><p>Diamond 16 is the gage - 16</p><p>Crossed stamp with a V at the bottom and crown at top is the visual inspection</p><p>Crossed samp with a Crown, B, P, and C arranged counterclockwise is the final black powder proof.</p><p>The crown over script BP is a temporary proof</p><p></p><p>So cool old gun, best used as a wall hanger.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Ahall, post: 4366568, member: 49426"] Great, now I need to buy some more books. Thanks D. The proof marks were all in use during Double D's production dates of 1878 to 1894. All the proofs are from Birmingham, which also corelates to Double D's reference. The "Choke" stamp came was use around 1887 so: The gun dates should date from 1887 to 1894. Nitrocellulose based powders were just starting to enter the market when this gun was produced. The proof tables I found don't show any English nitro proof marks for guns of that era. The nitro proofs show up around 1896. So, we should conclude the barrels were not engineered, manufactured, or proved for smokeless powder. WW Greeners book, and others from the era discuss the dangers of shooting nitro powder the older guns and the potentially catastrophic results. The articles were about top end guns, and the changes in shell geometry we discussed earlier did not exist yet. The black powder era guns were simply proved at lower pressures. When the nitrocellulose-based shells hit the market, some older guns could take more, and others ruptured. Granted, the smokeless powders of that era were a bit less predictable and less stable than what we use today, but they still had issues with black powder proved guns blowing up with smokeless loads, and this gun was not reproved for smokeless ammo. Bottom line is it was never intended for today's ammo. Also, it has appears to have a "false" dolls head engraved at the top of the standing breach. The retailer may have wanted the gun to appear to have dolls head for marketing reasons but not wanted the extra manufacturing cost. Burmingham trade gun with a more prestigious London address on the barrel. A name on the barrel stamp easily mistaken for a more prominent maker, Engraving to mimic higher cost features. Are we seeing a pattern? It was probably sound in its day with the loads it was intended for, but I would not advise shooting it today. The other marks Diamond 16 is the gage - 16 Crossed stamp with a V at the bottom and crown at top is the visual inspection Crossed samp with a Crown, B, P, and C arranged counterclockwise is the final black powder proof. The crown over script BP is a temporary proof So cool old gun, best used as a wall hanger. [/QUOTE]
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