What do we do after?

[Michael Brown]

After teaching at the Rangemaster Tactical Conference this year, I was given a membership in this organization.

It will likely be of interest to folks here:

http://www.armedcitizensnetwork.org/

Michael Brown

 

[Airmanslice]

Well, I've been arrested, for something that I didn't do. But I still refused to say anything until I got a lawyer. All the cops thought I was guilty as all hell but I didn't care. I knew that if I would have stated talking they would have started asking a lot of confusing questions really fast and I would have gotten even more nervous than I already was and said something stupid. I grew up in a family of cops and detectives and they all like to call the person their interrogating a liar no matter what story they get. I knew that was going to happen so I didn't give a statement. The arresting officer told me what was reported and I said "what?" I cooperated and he even let me empty out my pockets for him, and then patted me down anyway. He appreciated the cooperation but nothing beyond that.

I guess in a shooting scenario, it would be best just too state basic facts, offer your assistance and then shut up. Of course it differs if there's whitenesses or not but I'm not going to get into that. I think that explaining that you're shaken up and need some time (and a lawyer) before you start explaining things would help too. But I really don't know. A lot of you guys have some really good ideas too.

 

[Iwant1]

Protect yourself until the cops arrive, then DON'T frighten the LE into shooting you by waving a gun in their direction. Preserve the scene prior to the arrival of LE; keep curious on-lookers out/away so evidence is not compromised. Give the LE your name and address, then politely SHUT UP. It is not your function to make life easy for the investigating LE by giving a statement. Speak ONLY to your lawyer. The natural human tendency post-action is to run ones mouth and drop ones guard; don't do it! Re-read what liliysdad wrote.

I keep hearing not to speak until your lawyer is present. I don't have a friggin lawyer! How do I all of sudden get a lawyer and have him present before the cops!?

 

[dalepres]

That's easy. Refuse to cooperate with the investigating officer and then you can get one appointed to you the next court day when you get in front of the judge.

 

[Iwant1]

do i stay in Jail in the meantime?

 

[gillman7]

Yup or bond out, I think.

 

[bmxr4life87]

NOT LEGAL ADVICE

i know this thread is old but first off if your going to shoot you better do just as leo are trained to do : Shoot to kill otherwise your assailaint might get you when your not paying attention
example
im asleep in bed when i wake up to breaking glass and see an armed person in my living room, first they are in MY house second they ARE ARMED therefore i have 2 reasons to defend myself (no matter what their intentions are) so i have shot them until they are no longer threatening/standing/breathing whatever it takes first thing im going to do it kick their pistol/knife/shank/whatever away from their reach then call the police tell them where u live what just happened and where you and the suspect currently are (e.g. im in a white shirt and brown shorts and the suspect has been shot multiple times he is unconcious in my living room floor wearing a black hoodie and black jeans) you will probably stay on the phone till police arrive what i would do is place my gun in the open unloaded with the remaining ammo next to it. When the police get there they will verify who you are, who the criminal is (they will probably know them on a first name basis) and what happened. I see nothing wrong with telling them "I was asleep when i woke up and saw Joe Scumbag in my living room with a gun so i shot him in fear for my/my familys life" They most likely wont want you to write an official statement then anyways.

I dont know about the rest of the state/country/world but around here the police arent going to assume you did anything wrong because its YOUR house YOUR life YOU were protecting them they do have protocol to follow like ask questions verify its your house verify you have no warrants/felonies/etc. they will probably take your weapon with them for 90 days for processing but after that i do believe you go to the police department and they release it to you!

 

[penman53]

Let me first state that I am not a lawyer and not qualified to give legal advice. I am a police officer and can only speak from the perspective of the individual charged with investigating the incident and testifying to the observations made during that investigation.

I was very hesitant to enter this discussion after some of the comments I read here which I believe are very damaging to the concept of legitimate self-defense.

However I also felt that the unreasonable commentary should be tempered with experienced opinions and another point of view.

I must say I am in complete disagreement with what most here are saying regarding the advice they have gotten from their lawyers. This sounds very much like a lawyer's attempt to make himself more important.

The fact is most lawyers (99.99% of then) do not regularly deal with cases involving INNOCENT criminal defendants. Self-defense is an affirmative defense and if you want it to work for you, it has to start from the beginning and that includes first contact with responding officers. Its very difficult to jump into an affirmative defense halfway into an investigation.

I have responded to hundreds of shootings and a lot of justifiable shootings and testified in several justifiable shootings at preliminary hearings and discussed the related issues with homicide detectives in the decision to arrest or not more times than most lawyers have been in court.

Juries will have a hard time understanding why you just shot someone and then told the guys or gals coming to help you "I ain't talkin' till I get a lawyer." That is the defense of the bad guys. Anyone remember Bernard Goetz? He would probably not be a convicted felon today if his lawyer represented innocent people on a regular basis.

My suggestion is don't get diaharria of the mouth but you should say something.

Something to the effect of "Officer, that man there tried to kill me and I shot him in self-defense. I know you have an investigation to do and I will gladly cooperate and sign any complaints against the man who tried to kill me." Then point out any witnesses to the incident. Then and only then say "Before discussing any of the details of this incident, I'd like to speak to my attorney first and will fully cooperate with your investigation then."

This places you in the position of a person who has responded in justifiable self-defense not just a guy standign there with a smoking gun and a dead guy at his feet.

A lawyer who advises you to just say nothing is giving very bad advice in my opinion.

Also anyone who makes light of a justifiable self-defense shooting on a public forum really ought to consider the above statement about verbal diharria.

Anyone who believes a dead suspect is safer to you financially and personally than a live one just hasn't considered the issues very thoroughly.

A dead man's relatives can be just as harmful physically and financially and possibly more so.

Whether a suspect lives or dies in a justifiable self-defense shooting should be a matter for the E.R. doctors not for you. Your concern should be the protection of yourself and your family. A suspect's death has little bearing on this. If your self-protection practices solve this matter don't worry about it.

One thing I will agree with is that if you do what some here are advocating (i.e. commit a criminal act) then your best advice is to say nothing. That's what criminals do.

Michael Brown

Mike I think you are a truly honest man, I respect you and your advice and judgement. Mark Thomas Edmond Ok

 

[Jim Macklin]

Thank you for the advice. I appreciate those that understood the seriousness of my question. I wasn't asking how to beat a murder rap. I never really thought about what to say or do after the police arrive, I wanted to know what to do until they get there and what they would want to see on arrival. I am sure I would be nervous, and pretty shaken up.

I don't desire to kill anyone. I value life, but I realize that I may be called upon one day to take a life in defense of my life or the lives of my loved ones against those that don't. That is a mental commitment I have made and will live with.

Most of us will have had training and a license, an advantage of getting the CCW. The cops will expect that we know what to do and say, so having a simple speech memorized won't hurt, neither will taking some positive steps.

My intentions will be to survive any confrontation and be able to call 911 and give my name and the fact that I was just attacked [or stopped an attack on another person] and an ambulance is needed no for [estimate number of innocents and perps]. Describe myself in general terms, clothes, color, age.
Secure any weapons [without touching it]laying around and take a photo with my cellphone camera too. Maybe take a picture and then cover it with a box or have somebody responsible watch it.
When sure there is no further threat holster my gun.

When the officers arrive, identify myself and show my ID. Say that" During my training I was advised many times to give my name and address and only the minimum since memory after a trauma is not reliable. My friend who happens to be a lawyer has told me to stop talking and have him or another lawyer present during any questioning or interview. Do not talk to anyone other than your lawyer, particularly any reporter or anyone with a camera or taping.

 

[Matthew77]

In reading almost 10 pages of this thread one quote from a very very wise man comes to mind.

"At that point I had the right to remain silent....Just not the ability." Ron White Blue Color Comedy Tour