- Status
Well, I still probably wouldn't get the damn license, so I'd probably just go on keeping my pistol concealed and not drawing attention.
I already open carry if I damn well please when I'm tramping around on my own property or out hunting or at the range, so I suppose the passage of that law wouldn't change what I do too much. It would be a nice step in the right direction, though.
Maybe if they removed the license requirement for open carry, like a lot of other states have done, I'd do it. It would be kind of wierd though, since I wear a suit most of the time. I think I'll just keep doing what I'm doing... living free no matter what anybody else says.
I already open carry if I damn well please when I'm tramping around on my own property or out hunting or at the range, so I suppose the passage of that law wouldn't change what I do too much. It would be a nice step in the right direction, though.
Maybe if they removed the license requirement for open carry, like a lot of other states have done, I'd do it. It would be kind of wierd though, since I wear a suit most of the time. I think I'll just keep doing what I'm doing... living free no matter what anybody else says.
I wouldn't other than hunting, camping and fishing but would love to be able to hard mount a kydex holster on the console of my Jeep in plain sight and just a few inches from my shifter.
Other than that CCW is my first choice. I sure would like the option though.
Other than that CCW is my first choice. I sure would like the option though.
Wow ... I kinda dropped the ball here!! You guys ... seems to me you would know me well enough by now to know that I wasn't calling ya'll Billy Bad Asses ...
But, hey, we have all met them ... Okay, well maybe YOU haven't but try being the lone girl behind the counter at the gun range ... OR the lone girl on the range shooting ... "THEY" are out there and "THEY" scare me ...
The point I was trying to make is I feel like that if someone can see my gun then they can make an informed decision about whether or not they want to tie up with me. As an old woman, I don't think it is wise to let anybody know that I might have something that would help me in a confrontation ... cuz I don't want to fight with anybody over my gun ...
I would prefer, God forbid I ever have to use it, that the look in the Bad Guy's eyes says to me "Oh, **** ... I picked the wrong old lady to **** with today ..." NOT "Haha! Hey, old woman -- not feeling so smart now, are ya?"
As always, YMMV ... (and thanks Gerhard!! How have ya been sweetie??
)
Well spoken but now you do not have the ability to exercise your RIGHT to do so now.... it is not an option....
1) I suppose your personal opinion.
2) err very few people who live by the gun so to speak conceal carry their primary piece. One of the reasons, it is easier to get to and faster to deploy. The second part of two is total conjecture on your part and certainly not backed up by any statics. In fact the few gun stores, in which the store owner were open carry, that were robbery attempts seemed to conclude in a more favorable outcome for the store owner than many, many qt robberies. Open carry didnt seem to suddenly freeze the store owners ability to act. I also, think that the fact we are not slam dunked with media reports from the 40 plus other states about open carry causing havoc and destruction sort of tells a story about the effect of open carry and that is at the least it is having no effect on criminals causing them to suddenly start targeted armed citizens.
The good colonel's quote is being taken out of context. If I carry a violin case out of my house and back in my house everyday and you carry a mechanics tool set they are likely to think i am a musician and your a mechanic. Deterrent comes into play in this scenario and i think 40 plus states have not had a giant increase in open carried travesties.
If by a lot of police officers getting disarmed you meant statistically very few i would agree with you.
2) err very few people who live by the gun so to speak conceal carry their primary piece. One of the reasons, it is easier to get to and faster to deploy. The second part of two is total conjecture on your part and certainly not backed up by any statics. In fact the few gun stores, in which the store owner were open carry, that were robbery attempts seemed to conclude in a more favorable outcome for the store owner than many, many qt robberies. Open carry didnt seem to suddenly freeze the store owners ability to act. I also, think that the fact we are not slam dunked with media reports from the 40 plus other states about open carry causing havoc and destruction sort of tells a story about the effect of open carry and that is at the least it is having no effect on criminals causing them to suddenly start targeted armed citizens.
The good colonel's quote is being taken out of context. If I carry a violin case out of my house and back in my house everyday and you carry a mechanics tool set they are likely to think i am a musician and your a mechanic. Deterrent comes into play in this scenario and i think 40 plus states have not had a giant increase in open carried travesties.
If by a lot of police officers getting disarmed you meant statistically very few i would agree with you.
Wow ... I kinda dropped the ball here!! You guys ... seems to me you would know me well enough by now to know that I wasn't calling ya'll Billy Bad Asses ...
But, hey, we have all met them ... Okay, well maybe YOU haven't but try being the lone girl behind the counter at the gun range ... OR the lone girl on the range shooting ... "THEY" are out there and "THEY" scare me ...
The point I was trying to make is I feel like that if someone can see my gun then they can make an informed decision about whether or not they want to tie up with me. As an old woman, I don't think it is wise to let anybody know that I might have something that would help me in a confrontation ... cuz I don't want to fight with anybody over my gun ...
I would prefer, God forbid I ever have to use it, that the look in the Bad Guy's eyes says to me "Oh, **** ... I picked the wrong old lady to **** with today ..." NOT "Haha! Hey, old woman -- not feeling so smart now, are ya?"
As always, YMMV ... (and thanks Gerhard!! How have ya been sweetie??
I 'm doing OK, hon; thanks for asking. Not much doing at the moment. Hows about you?
I don't think that you were calling ALL pro-OC folks 'Billy Bad Ass'; I'm certainly not, but the unfortunate fact is that some of them are. And they have the potential to be a public-relations nightmare.
On the Kansas concealed carry forum that I belong to, there are a couple of hot-heads that constantly say how they are going to, in their words, 'lay a beating' on someone; one example was for playing their boom-box too loud, and in another case, it was for abandoning a dog. The fact that these people carry guns, quite frankly worries me. Self-defense is one thing, but taking the law into your own hands is quite another, and that these idiots go on a public forum with this type of nonsense, is to me at least, beyond stupid. The public reads these forums for pete's good sake!! These were, by-and-large, a couple of the more vigorous advocates of OC, and such people are not exactly helpful to the cause that they say they advocate. So, it appears to me that one of the main obstacles that OC forces must contend with is some of their own people.
For OC to pass muster in this state not only with the state itself, but more importantly with the people of the state, is going to take more than just shouting "what part of 'shall not be infringed' don't you understand?" or whatever the latest clever saying of the day from the pro-gun people is. This type of sloganeering, and that is exactly what it is, is going to get us nowhere.
Suppose that OC does come to pass in this state. As soon as the law takes effect, Billy Bad-Ass (or for that matter, one of the people from the Brady Bunch) decides to walk into the nearest shopping mall with his trusty 1911A1 showing proudly for all to see, does anyone here for one minute think that that shopping mall is not going to be posted as soon as the signs can be had? If you don't, then you are living in a dream world.
Now, do I think that everyone, or even a majority of those who OC will be like this? Of course I don't. But some will, and if you don't think so, well then that dream-world that I mentioned earlier comes to mind.
It is one thing to be strident; it is quite another to be smart.
I suppose that what I'm saying is be careful what you wish for: you might just get it.
Todd you are "terribly" incorrect about a number of things you posted here and the rest are unsupported by facts.
20% is statistically significant if you are referring to disarmings and that number has been consistent for the last twenty years.
The repeated argument about the other 40 states not having bloody streets is entirely anecdotal because a large number of those states don't have pre-emption laws like Oklahoma does so while the state doesn't forbid open carry, the large municipalities frequently do.
You cannot support your supposition that open carry worked out more often than concealed carry. I would certainly agree that open carry is better than NO carry, which is really the comparision you should be making but that is a non-issue in Oklahoma so it doesn't support your argument.
As far as those who "live by the gun" operating unconcealed, again that is not correct. That is a contextual issue. Everyone who "lives by the gun" and carries it openly also wears a uniform to make them identifiable for their agency/country's reasons. A number of those personal who do the actual fighting, as opposed to being support personnel conceal when it is appropriate and wear openly when appropriate.
However I don't know any of them that regularly walk around openly carrying without being identifiable as a soldier or police officer.
As I said before, I do not favor open carry because I don't think it's a good idea but I don't oppose someone else's wish to do so, no matter how silly I think it is.
About the only thing I agree with in your post is that open carry does not freeze someone's ability to act, however that is not what I wrote.
What I wrote was that speed of decision-making is more important than speed of presentation and that open carry gives away one of your critical advantages in such a scenario.
If you disagree, I offer as my perspective hundreds of students that I've worked with who have very rarely been able to hit, without getting shot, a suspect already armed in force on force scenarios. However they typically succeed when they pick the appropriate time to draw as opposed to getting into a 50/50 gunfight and trying to beat a drawn gun. If you look at the context of criminal assault, weapons and numbers are usually disproportionate as opposed to the range, indicating that criminals pick the time, place, and generally manipulate the context to their advantage. If you accept this premise, and you should if you understand what criminal assaults as opposed to agreed upon combat looks like, then you would have to agree that you give unnecessary information to your assailant if you open carry.
If you ask any of the board members here who have taken our class or the hundreds of others who have, I'm confident they'll tell you that the speed of their presentation was not the deciding factor as opposed to appropriate timing of presentation. I think it's probably the most statistically significant pool anyone on this board has.
While I agree that this is not a life or death scenario, I will point out that I don't know firsthand of any scenario where speed of presentation was the deciding factor in a lethal force situation even when the shooter was carrying openly i.e. LE and Military.
This does not mean that smooth, efficient presenation is not important; It's simply far subordinate to speedy decision-making, such that open carry offers such minimal advantage and such large detriment, that I simply believe it's a poor tactical decision.
I would venture that I have enough firsthand experience investigating these cases to offer an educated opinion on the matter but I recognize that some will simply want to do what they want to do.
Michael Brown
- Status
Similar threads
