What do we do after?

[berettaman]

Gotta admit though,that's one slick way the lawyer found to drum up business for himself.Might as well tell the officer how to tie his shoes,that his badge is on crooked and tarnished,his new uniform makes him look like a "rent a ninja" and his mother dresses him funny.
It's getting old but still
Don't Poke the Bear!

 

[Michael Brown]

Let me first state that I am not a lawyer and not qualified to give legal advice. I am a police officer and can only speak from the perspective of the individual charged with investigating the incident and testifying to the observations made during that investigation.

I was very hesitant to enter this discussion after some of the comments I read here which I believe are very damaging to the concept of legitimate self-defense.

However I also felt that the unreasonable commentary should be tempered with experienced opinions and another point of view.

I must say I am in complete disagreement with what most here are saying regarding the advice they have gotten from their lawyers. This sounds very much like a lawyer's attempt to make himself more important.

The fact is most lawyers (99.99% of then) do not regularly deal with cases involving INNOCENT criminal defendants. Self-defense is an affirmative defense and if you want it to work for you, it has to start from the beginning and that includes first contact with responding officers. Its very difficult to jump into an affirmative defense halfway into an investigation.

I have responded to hundreds of shootings and a lot of justifiable shootings and testified in several justifiable shootings at preliminary hearings and discussed the related issues with homicide detectives in the decision to arrest or not more times than most lawyers have been in court.

Juries will have a hard time understanding why you just shot someone and then told the guys or gals coming to help you "I ain't talkin' till I get a lawyer." That is the defense of the bad guys. Anyone remember Bernard Goetz? He would probably not be a convicted felon today if his lawyer represented innocent people on a regular basis.

My suggestion is don't get diaharria of the mouth but you should say something.

Something to the effect of "Officer, that man there tried to kill me and I shot him in self-defense. I know you have an investigation to do and I will gladly cooperate and sign any complaints against the man who tried to kill me." Then point out any witnesses to the incident. Then and only then say "Before discussing any of the details of this incident, I'd like to speak to my attorney first and will fully cooperate with your investigation then."

This places you in the position of a person who has responded in justifiable self-defense not just a guy standign there with a smoking gun and a dead guy at his feet.

A lawyer who advises you to just say nothing is giving very bad advice in my opinion.

Also anyone who makes light of a justifiable self-defense shooting on a public forum really ought to consider the above statement about verbal diharria.

Anyone who believes a dead suspect is safer to you financially and personally than a live one just hasn't considered the issues very thoroughly.

A dead man's relatives can be just as harmful physically and financially and possibly more so.

Whether a suspect lives or dies in a justifiable self-defense shooting should be a matter for the E.R. doctors not for you. Your concern should be the protection of yourself and your family. A suspect's death has little bearing on this. If your self-protection practices solve this matter don't worry about it.

One thing I will agree with is that if you do what some here are advocating (i.e. commit a criminal act) then your best advice is to say nothing. That's what criminals do.

Michael Brown

 

[Cowman]

The only thing I would add to the best advice given above. Is to somewhere mention that . I was in fear for my life or my families life.

 

[pete156]

I do agree with the fact that you should at least give the details that Mike mentioned, regardless of what I've been told. I don't think I could give the officers a hard time like that anyhow. Unfortunately, I think I'd be more like a teenage girl on a phone call and wouldn't be able to shut up after what had just happened.

Do any of you actually expect me to believe that you wouldn't give even the slightest detail to what happened or why until you had a lawyer present? I would at least let them know that it was in self defense so that I didn't look like a perp who just shot a stranger for no good reason.

 

[bulbboy]

Let me first state that I am not a lawyer and not qualified to give legal advice. I am a police officer and can only speak from the perspective of the individual charged with investigating the incident and testifying to the observations made during that investigation.

I was very hesitant to enter this discussion after some of the comments I read here which I believe are very damaging to the concept of legitimate self-defense.

However I also felt that the unreasonable commentary should be tempered with experienced opinions and another point of view.

I must say I am in complete disagreement with what most here are saying regarding the advice they have gotten from their lawyers. This sounds very much like a lawyer's attempt to make himself more important.

The fact is most lawyers (99.99% of then) do not regularly deal with cases involving INNOCENT criminal defendants. Self-defense is an affirmative defense and if you want it to work for you, it has to start from the beginning and that includes first contact with responding officers. Its very difficult to jump into an affirmative defense halfway into an investigation.

I have responded to hundreds of shootings and a lot of justifiable shootings and testified in several justifiable shootings at preliminary hearings and discussed the related issues with homicide detectives in the decision to arrest or not more times than most lawyers have been in court.

Juries will have a hard time understanding why you just shot someone and then told the guys or gals coming to help you "I ain't talkin' till I get a lawyer." That is the defense of the bad guys. Anyone remember Bernard Goetz? He would probably not be a convicted felon today if his lawyer represented innocent people on a regular basis.

My suggestion is don't get diaharria of the mouth but you should say something.

Something to the effect of "Officer, that man there tried to kill me and I shot him in self-defense. I know you have an investigation to do and I will gladly cooperate and sign any complaints against the man who tried to kill me." Then point out any witnesses to the incident. Then and only then say "Before discussing any of the details of this incident, I'd like to speak to my attorney first and will fully cooperate with your investigation then."

This places you in the position of a person who has responded in justifiable self-defense not just a guy standign there with a smoking gun and a dead guy at his feet.

A lawyer who advises you to just say nothing is giving very bad advice in my opinion.

Also anyone who makes light of a justifiable self-defense shooting on a public forum really ought to consider the above statement about verbal diharria.

Anyone who believes a dead suspect is safer to you financially and personally than a live one just hasn't considered the issues very thoroughly.

A dead man's relatives can be just as harmful physically and financially and possibly more so.

Whether a suspect lives or dies in a justifiable self-defense shooting should be a matter for the E.R. doctors not for you. Your concern should be the protection of yourself and your family. A suspect's death has little bearing on this. If your self-protection practices solve this matter don't worry about it.

One thing I will agree with is that if you do what some here are advocating (i.e. commit a criminal act) then your best advice is to say nothing. That's what criminals do.

Michael Brown

I agree with Michael. +1

 

[Glock 40]

I suggest the mods delete this post as soon as possbile so that no one can have this thread used against them.

 

[liliysdad]

I have nowhere near the experience that Michael, and we work in two different parts of the state. My limited experience, however, tells me something different. I still maintain that I would say nothing to the investigating officer until I have legal representation. The simple excited utterance can mean the difference between motive and self defense.

This being said, I do not advocate saying "I aint saying nothin' till my lawyer gets here". That does imply guilt, or at least some form of deceit. There is no reason an officer should mind someone in a situation such as this saying "Officer, I am very upset right now, and I do not feel that I can make a statement at this time. I would be more than happy to speak to you when my attorny arrives, and I can compose myself." There is nothing wrong witht that. Chances are, the investigating officer is gonna have a pretty good idea what happened before even speaking to the investigating officer.

However, I have, on more than one occasion, recommended an individual contact an attorney before speaking to me, as I did not feel they could adequately represent thmeselves.

The fact is, EVERY single person in this United States has the right not to testify against himself. Period. Even the dirtiest, nastiest, career criminal should feel secure in not making a statement concerning himself and his actions.

I dont work in Tulsa, and I suppose my opinions might differ if I did. Here, if we get a call concerning a shooting, the caller will tell us that they shot someone coming into their house, etc. I do not immediately suspect them of wrong doing. They are innocent until something proves them guilty to me.

 

[J.P.]

I would tell them the truth because I would have nothing to hide.
That seems simple enough.

 

[JD8]

I would tell them the truth because I would have nothing to hide.
That seems simple enough.

I JUST read this thread and was thinking the same thing.

 

[liliysdad]

I have no probelm telling what happened. None at all. I simply dont gfeel that in the heat of the moment is the best time to do so. If you are calm, and trust your ability to convey what had just happened to the police, then by all means do so. Stress does strangethings to a person, and i have seen people say very off the wall things when under the amount of stress a shooting would incur. Many people do not even remember what has happened in detail, till several hours after the critical incident.

Our legal defense attorneys have told us many times to never make a statement immediately after a shooting, and thats for an on duty police officer.